Romance Scammer Poses as Keanu Reeves Using AI

(MUSIC INTRO)

[00:00:02] Bob: This week on The Perfect Scam.

[00:00:05] Det. Newbanks: I made contact with our victim here. She believed she was sending funds for a foundation, the Sun City Foundation, that Keanu Reeves, well, allegedly Keanu Reeves, said that he was a part of. And then Diane's name came up.

[00:00:21] Dianne Ringstaff: He said, "Well what about this LLC?" And I said, "Oh my God." I started hyperventilating. I said, "I know what this is about."

(MUSIC SEGUE)

[00:00:38] Bob: Welcome back to The Perfect Scam. I'm your host, Bob Sullivan.

(MUSIC SEGUE)

[00:00:44] Bob: This sure sounds like Keanu Reeves.

[00:00:47] CLIP: Good morning, my sunshine, Dianne. As you said last night, I am sending this recording to let you know that I cherish you and...

[00:00:54] Bob: And so does this...

[00:00:56] CLIP: I'm constantly thinking about you. I know it's messy dealing with the hurricane and living with your mom.

[00:01:03] Bob: These are just a couple of the voice messages that Dianne Ringstaff received during the past few years as she was romanced by the person she met playing Words with Friends. Is that really the voice of the famous actor? We'll get to that in a moment, but first, let's chat for a bit with Dianne who lives outside Tampa, Florida, and was in a very tough spot on the day she first got a private message from that new clever player on Words with Friends.

[00:01:30] Bob: You were home by yourself in a home that you had purchased with your boyfriend, right?

[00:01:36] Dianne Ringstaff: Correct.

[00:01:36] Bob: Could we talk about your boyfriend for a little bit? How long had you guys been together?

[00:01:40] Dianne Ringstaff: Oh, six years.

[00:01:42] Bob: And then he got sick, right?

[00:01:44] Dianne Ringstaff: Yeah, he got sick and then a lot of other medical issues came up with him and just, it just like boiled into worse and worse and worse and then he ended up um, dying in hospice.

[00:02:03] Bob: I'm so sorry. And, and you have bought this house together with him, right?

[00:02:06] Dianne Ringstaff: Yes.

[00:02:08] Bob: So you had planned a whole life with him.

[00:02:09] Dianne Ringstaff: Back in 20--, back in 2017, and then he died in '21. And then we had gotten a dog in 2017 together. We got a dog together and a house together and everything and then my dog ended up dying in the summer of '22. So there I was by myself.

[00:02:38] Bob: I mean and you had, you had your, your life plotting out there, right? New house, boyfriend, the dog, I mean, yeah.

[00:02:44] Dianne Ringstaff: Yeah, yep. We were talking about marriage and everything else.

[00:02:51] Bob: There are many lonely days and nights as Dianne sits by herself in that home she bought with her boyfriend. And like many people today, she helps pass the time playing online games like Words with Friends. And one day...

[00:03:07] Dianne Ringstaff: I was taking a break from work, 'cause I work from home. Um, and go into the office once a week. So I was home. And I was taking a break, and I was playing Words with Friends. And just like a normal day, that's when he hit me up on Words with Friends. Invited me to play a game. And I said, okay, and his little avatar looked like Keanu Reeves, and I thought, but his name was different. You know it's like he made up a name or whatever, so I said, "Hmm, okay, let's play." So I started playing and um, then he, there's a chat portion on that game and he sent me a message saying that I remind him of someone he used to know. So he started talking to me that way.

[00:04:11] Bob: Hmm. And silly question, but do you remember who won the first game you played?

[00:04:16] Dianne Ringstaff: He did.

[00:04:17] Bob: (chuckles) Okay.

[00:04:18] Dianne Ringstaff: (laughs)

[00:04:20] Bob: After he wins, her opponent repeats that she reminds him of someone, and he sends Dianne another private message.

[00:04:29] Dianne Ringstaff: He um, sent me his email address, and so I emailed him. So then he had mine. And he said, "You do know this is Keanu Reeves." And I said, "I sort of figured by your avatar," it kind of looked like Keanu. And so things went from there. Then he asked me to join Google Chat.

[00:04:54] Bob: Oh wow. And did you, what did you think? Did you, did you believe him?

[00:04:59] Dianne Ringstaff: Not really without seeing him.

[00:05:03] Bob: Dianne is skeptical, but they keep chatting for a few days, and then this person, this alleged Keanu Reeves invites her to a video chat.

[00:05:13] Dianne Ringstaff: And um, I, there he was. (chuckles) It was a little like he was from a distance kind of, but it was close enough where I could tell it was him.

[00:05:27] Bob: So...

[00:05:28] Dianne Ringstaff: But then we lost audio.

[00:05:30] Bob: Ah, but you can still make out kind of in the distance, why my goodness, that's actually Keanu Reeves.

[00:05:34] Dianne Ringstaff: Yeah.

[00:05:37] Bob: And so Dianne comes to believe she really is chatting with the real Keanu Reeves.

[00:05:43] Dianne Ringstaff: I was like, why on earth would he want to talk to me? (laughs) You know and I don't know, things went from there.

[00:05:54] Bob: At that point they start chatting every day, mostly small talk at first, even as he is working on location in Europe.

[00:06:02] Dianne Ringstaff: He wouldn't miss a beat. He would say, "Good morning, how are you?" Blah-blah-blah. We started getting to know each other and we would talk every day, and he would tell me how the filming went. You know, when he was at the studio and he would tell me, you know, about the places in Spain. And then he would send me pictures of him with his friends that he met in Spain.

[00:06:31] Bob: The more they talk, the more intimate the conversations become.

[00:06:36] Dianne Ringstaff: And then he started, I mean like I don't know, it was a month or two, I'd say two months went by, and I started gaining you know trust. 'Cause he, we were getting to know each other. He'd tell me about his mom. He would tell me about how he played hockey in Canada when, you know, and in high school. And told me about his mother and his sisters and you know, and then I told him about my family and you know, then um...

[00:07:10] Bob: I mean was he a pretty good listener?

[00:07:13] Dianne Ringstaff: Oh yeah.

[00:07:15] Bob: And then he starts to send Dianne little tokens of affection.

[00:07:21] Dianne Ringstaff: He sent me a t-shirt, and then he asked me like, during our time of getting to know each other, I told him that I like decorating terracotta pots, like planters. Like stuff you put plants in. The pots, I decorate them. I used to, you know, take a, a drill and etch things on them and paint them and everything else. And I like doing that. But he ordered me a already finished terracotta pot with plants in it and sent that to me.

[00:08:01] Bob: He sends her playful pictures too. In one, he's holding up a sign that says, "Wishing you a very special happy birthday, Dianne. My love for you is unending." And he sends voice messages too. This first one comes not long after Hurricane Milton hit the Tampa area very hard.

[00:08:20] CLIP: I'm constantly thinking about you. I know it's messy dealing with the hurricane and living with your mom, but it happened just for a period of time. Things are changing simultaneously. Let me know how you are feeling and how soon we can reconnect in Skype. Good morning, my sunshine, Dianne. As you said last night, I am sending this recording to let you know that I cherish you and that I am loyal to you. You will always be my queen. Have a great day today, Dianne. Love you. Kisses from your loving Keanu.

[00:08:53] Bob: The voice messages sound very sweet, and then at some point Keanu made things much more serious.

[00:09:02] Bob: He started to say that he loved you?

[00:09:04] Dianne Ringstaff: Yeah, and he sent me love letters and pictures and you know voice recordings and...

[00:09:13] Bob: Yeah, how did you feel when he said he loved you?

[00:09:17] Dianne Ringstaff: Well, I thought it was kind of soon.

[00:09:24] Bob: Soon, but Dianne sure enjoys the attention. It's exciting and seems harmless enough, but right about then her new online lover says he needs help.

[00:09:36] Dianne Ringstaff: He said, "I don't have any help from anybody. I can't contact my, my family, that we're not speaking..." and "You're the only one I have who can help me." That's how he put it. "You're the only one who is helping me. I don't have any other help."

[00:09:58] Bob: And so you really wanted to help him, right?

[00:09:59] Dianne Ringstaff: Yeah.

[00:10:02] Bob: You're the only one who can help me, because he's in the middle of a big financial dispute, he says, and that has escalated very quickly.

[00:10:11] Dianne Ringstaff: He said his ex-manager Irwin was going to sue him over the movie The Matrix, because he didn't feel like he got paid enough money.

[00:10:25] Bob: Hmm.

[00:10:26] Dianne Ringstaff: Then he said, you know, I don't know, a week or so went by and he sent me a picture of this official document saying that Keanu Charles Reeves v. that Irwin guy or whatever planted drugs in his home in LA while he was in Spain.

[00:10:50] Bob: Oh.

[00:10:51] Dianne Ringstaff: And he didn't have access to his banking or anything. The FBI and everything froze his assets. So he needed money, and that's where it started.

[00:11:06] Bob: So he needs money. He asks for a loan. And Dianne is the only person he can turn to. Dianne really wants to help.

[00:11:16] Dianne Ringstaff: He said, I need at least $10,000, and I have to get a lawyer." So I got a loan for $10,000. And it was deposited into my bank.

[00:11:36] Bob: But he says she'll have to get creative to send him the money.

[00:11:40] Dianne Ringstaff: He said, "Well, I had to open a bitcoin account since I don't have access to my bank. So you're going to have to send it through a bitcoin ATM," and I said, what? I, I had no idea what bitcoin was, how it worked. Nothing. You know, so I started searching on my phone for a bitcoin ATM and I found one. So then I went there and with all this money in my pocketbook and followed the instructions, and he sent me his wallet, his bitcoin wallet, his bitcoin address, and so through the ATM you were able to, it's like a um, QR code, your, his bitcoin wallet address. And all you had to do was hold it underneath the ATM camera so it could scan it. And then you would deposit how much money but it would only let you a certain amount a day. I think like $2999. So I had to keep going back until the 10,000 was gone.

[00:13:06] Bob: Ah.

[00:13:07] Dianne Ringstaff: In the meantime, I was working and my dog was getting sick. Ugh, God.

[00:13:15] Bob: After a few days, Dianne has sent the full $10,000 to him, but not long after he says he needs more, and more.

[00:13:25] Dianne Ringstaff: He, after each time he would say, "I got it, thank you so much." Blah-blah-blah. And then you know a few days would go by or a week would go by and he said, "My lawyer needs more." And I said, "Well, I just got a $10,000 loan. When am I going to be paid back for these, you know, loans?" 'Cause I got another one and another one. So I got two, a $10,000 loan, and then I got a $12,000 loan, and by this time I was sick of feeding ATM machines, so I opened up my own bitcoin account. Then I would transfer the money from my bank to myself in bitcoin. Then I would send him the money from my bitcoin to his bitcoin. And that's how everything transpired from there.

[00:14:30] Bob: Dianne starts to get a bit nervous about everything that's happening, but he then takes the relationship up yet another level.

[00:14:40] Dianne Ringstaff: And I said, you know, "I have gotten all these loans. When are you going to pay me back?" He said, "I promise, you deserve the world. I want to make you my wife," and blah, blah, blah, blah. You know all this stuff, and here I was, I was in another zone, I guess, or I was in cloud nine, but I was also, you know, upset because I just lost my dog.

[00:15:06] Bob: Of course.

[00:15:07] Dianne Ringstaff: So I, whirlwind of emotion. And um...

[00:15:13] Bob: And that whirlwind of emotion now includes a promise that they will soon live together, get a home together. The house she's in now, well that mainly has bad memories for her, so that sounds appealing.

[00:15:28] Bob: Well, at the same time your house was empty, right?

[00:15:31] Dianne Ringstaff: Well at the same time I buried my dog.

[00:15:34] Bob: I'm so sorry, ugh.

[00:15:35] Dianne Ringstaff: And then I thought, okay, well the air conditioning broke, and things were starting to break down and that's when I got a home equity loan, sent it to him, and then I sold my home and gave him the money. It was 20,000. It would have been 70 if I hadn't a got the home equity loan because that was 50 grand, and I had to pay that back. So when they sold the house, I got 20,000. So I sent that to him.

[00:16:13] Bob: So he gets the proceeds from the house sale, and she moves in with her mom for the time being. And still, he asks for more loans.

[00:16:23] Bob: My understanding is that even with every paycheck you would start to send him money, right?

[00:16:28] Dianne Ringstaff: Yeah, then, you know, after a while, I guess it was 2023, I would send most of my paycheck.

[00:16:38] Bob: At this point, he asks for permission to send her money, but not to repay the loans, but instead to help raise money for charity. The money will be coming from donors, he says.

[00:16:50] Dianne Ringstaff: Then he would start saying, "I finally," you know, "got a hold of my sister, Emma. She lives in the UK. And she will be sending money to your account." 'Cause I gave, I ended up giving him my bank account. And so then money started coming into my bank account, so I would end up sending him all that money that supposedly came, it did say the UK, United Kingdom when in my account. But it didn't say the person's name.

[00:17:23] Bob: But these sums of money would just start arriving in your checking account?

[00:17:25] Dianne Ringstaff: Yeah. And I would have to...

[00:17:27] Bob: Like how much would it be typically?

[00:17:28] Dianne Ringstaff: Like sometimes it was a thousand, sometimes it was 6000, you know, 3000.

[00:17:35] Bob: And he just asked you to send him that, that money over bitcoin?

[00:17:38] Dianne Ringstaff: Yeah, which I would do.

[00:17:40] Bob: She even sets up a LLC for him hoping to make it even easier to get the donations. But then finally he says he's done filming, and he's on his way to meet her.

[00:17:53] Dianne Ringstaff: After I sold my home and moved in with Mom, it was Christmastime '22. And he said he was coming. He was coming to Florida and he was coming to my mom's house to see me to finally meet. So I went out and I got him a gift. I got him a picture of him as John Wick, but imprinted in glass. And I got him a couple of metal motorcycles, like little figurines that he could put on his office desk. And he said, "I got you things too that will, your, your mind's going to be blown. You're not going to believe what I get you."

[00:18:43] Bob: But Dianne never gets to give him those gifts. That trip gets cancelled because there's mechanical troubles with his plane. Another trip gets cancelled too, but then they make plans to meet in Buffalo, New York, where he has found a house for them to live in.

[00:18:59] Dianne Ringstaff: And he sent me a picture of it and everything, and he said, "This is going to be our home." And he said, "I want you to sell your car, don't quit your job yet, sell your car 'cause you won't be needing it," and "we'll be getting, making plane ticket arrangements for you to come meet me in New York."

[00:19:23] Bob: Hmm, okay.

[00:19:26] Bob: So Dianne sells her car.

[00:19:29] Dianne Ringstaff: And then the next day I had packed, and I was all set to go to New York to meet him. And then he, you know, I heard this ding on my phone, and it was him saying, "Oh you have to cancel the plane ticket."

[00:19:46] Bob: You have to cancel the plane ticket? That's sets Dianne off.

[00:19:50] Dianne Ringstaff: I don't know, he had some wild excuse and I was so mad. I said, "You SOB. You made me sell my car, buy plane tickets, and everything, and you're cancelling it."

[00:20:05] Bob: And you, you were all packed, right? You had your clothes picked out, right? Wow.

[00:29:09] Dianne Ringstaff: Yeah. I said, "Thank you so much." I said, "You've just destroyed everything. Not only have you destroyed my life, but you destroyed, you know, you've just destroyed me."

[00:20:22] Bob: Ah, that sounds horrible.

[00:20:24] Dianne Ringstaff: Oh, I was so, I was crying to my mom. Told her everything.

[00:20:31] Bob: What did your mom say at that point?

[00:20:33] Dianne Ringstaff: She just said, "I'm so sorry." She, she thought it was actually him, too.

[00:20:38] Bob: Um, sure, sure. Yeah, wow. But it must have been just absolutely crushing for all these times where you think you're going to meet him and then it doesn't work out.

[00:20:46] Dianne Ringstaff: Yeah.

[00:20:47] Bob: But still they keep chatting up through summer 2024 when Dianne gets her hopes up again, this time for a romantic rendezvous in Europe.

[00:20:58] Dianne Ringstaff: And then he said, "You need to go get your, your passport."

[00:21:03] Bob: Hmm.

[00:21:03] Dianne Ringstaff: So I went to all the trouble getting my passport.

[00:21:07] Bob: Because he wanted you to join him in, in France or something?

[00:21:10] Dianne Ringstaff: Yep. Yep.

[00:21:12] Bob: Okay. Wow.

[00:21:12] Dianne Ringstaff: Touring in France, you know, Paris, Italy, um, you know all those over there.

[00:21:21] Bob: Uh-huh, uh-huh.

[00:21:22] Dianne Ringstaff: And I was getting really excited. I thought, oh cool. I can go see these countries. I've never seen them before.

[00:21:30] Bob: But while Dianne is still dreaming of visiting France, there's a surprise visitor at her mom's house, and that changes everything for her.

[00:21:39] Dianne Ringstaff: And then two police officers knocked on my door when I was working in my mom's, um, living room. They knocked on her door. And she opened it and I saw them, and I'm like, holy cow, what's going on? And they said, "We're looking for Dianne Ringstaff." And I said, "That's me." And they came in, and they said, "Could we sit down and ask you a couple questions?" And I said, "Sure." I said, "What in the world is this about?"

[00:22:13] Bob: What in the world is this about? One of those two officers looking for Dianne Ringstaff is Detective Thomas Newbanks from the Marion County Sheriff's Office in Marion County, Florida.

[00:22:27] Det. Newbanks: I initially came across her name when I was assigned a case for some follow-up investigation here in Marion County in regards to a victim that we had that believed she was in a, a romantic relationship with Keanu Reeves.

[00:22:42] Bob: That victim, well that's not Dianne. That's a person who was sending money to Dianne's bank account believing the money was going to Keanu Reeves charity.

[00:22:53] Det. Newbanks: I made contact with our victim here, spoke with her in person, went out to the house and, and sat with her for a little over an hour talking to her about this relationship and how that relationship started and why she believed it was Keanu Reeves. As a result of that, she provided me with some financial information. And then Diane's name came up while we were speaking, um, because she was, she believed she was sending funds for a foundation, the Sun City Foundation, um, that Keanu Reeves, well allegedly Keanu Reeves, said that he was a part of, and they were looking for donations. She sent this money to this Dianne Ringstaff individual she believed was a manager associated with the foundation.

[00:23:38] Bob: Okay so, so there was someone sending money to Dianne Ringstaff.

[00:23:41] Det. Newbanks: Yeah.

[00:23:42] Bob: Thinking she was donating money.

[00:23:43] Det. Newbanks: Yes.

[00:23:44] Bob: So when police go to Dianne's house, they think there's a possibility that she is actually in on the crime.

[00:23:51] Det. Newbanks: Initially the, the investigation led me to Dianne's name and, and her address and all that. My initial thought was that she was going to be a suspect in my case based on the fact that all the money funneled to her and, and her accounts.

[00:24:04] Bob: But was this a lot of money?

[00:24:05] Det. Newbanks: It was a fair amount of money, uh, in excess of $45,000.

[00:24:10] Bob: Detective Newbanks has made many of these house calls, but still, everyone is tense.

[00:24:19] Det. Newbanks: There's a, a big unknown factor when you go knocking on these doors because you have everything on paper that you can verify up until that point. So when that door opens, you don't know if you're going to be met with Dianne, as in this case we were, as opposed to somebody else that's involved that is very unsuspecting to have two detectives showing up to, to blow the lid off the, the whole operation. Um, it can be tense because again you, there's a, a very high level of unknown when you're going to go deal with stuff like this.

[00:24:49] Bob: Of course, that could even be dangerous, right?

[00:24:51] Det. Newbanks: Absolutely. Again, with the not knowing if it's, again, an unsuspecting victim who has just fallen prey to the scam as well, or if it's somebody who opens the door, sees the detectives, oh, the jigs up, and they want to become aggressive. I mean there's, there's a very high level of threat and, and risk that's involved with that kind of stuff.

[00:25:13] Bob: When Dianne's mom opens the door and the detectives ask to meet with her, well there isn't much of a confrontation.

[00:25:23] Dianne Ringstaff: And he said, "Do you know a woman by the name of blah-blah?" I can't remember the name. And I said, "No! I've never heard of this person." And he said, "Well what about this LLC?" And I said, "Oh my God." I said, I started hyperventilating. I said, "I know what this is about."

[00:25:47] Det. Newbanks: She was very, very receptive to speaking with us. We started talking and then I had the, the unpleasant aspect of letting her know that I, I'd looked at her financial records and based on that, that's why I was at her house. When I told her that I'd looked at her financials, she immediately got concerned, and then that's when she said, "Hold on. Wait a minute." She pulled her, her bank records that she had as well as that I had in, for my case. And we started looking over them together, and I indicated different transactions that I had flagged on my end from my investigation, and then that's when she, she disclosed to me that she believed she was in a, an online relationship with Keanu Reeves as well.

[00:26:31] Dianne Ringstaff: And that's when I opened up my app and I showed him everything that had to do with this Keanu, and he said, "You are being scammed. You and all these other people." And I said, "Oh my God." I just broke down and cried. But at the same time I was so happy and relieved because...

[00:27:00] Bob: You find... oh go ahead.

[00:27:01] Dianne Ringstaff: Because I was done with it.

[00:27:03] Bob: It finally all made sense in some way I suppose, right?

[00:27:06] Dianne Ringstaff: Yeah.

[00:27:08] Bob: Dianne was done with it.

[00:27:11] Bob: At this point did, did you ever, you know do the math and add up how much money you had sent him, how much he owed you?

[00:27:17] Dianne Ringstaff: Oh yeah, I did a spreadsheet.

[00:27:19] Bob: Hmm.

[00:27:21] Dianne Ringstaff: Again I sent it to the uh detectives. And it totaled around, I don't know, over $160,000. I sold my car. It was already paid for. I was, (chuckles) oh my God. The more I think about all this that I could die.

[00:27:43] Bob: And that's when the detectives need to change hats, quickly.

[00:27:49] Bob: I'm guessing you need to walk in there with an entire bushel full of compassion because once you realized that Dianne truly believes that she's in a relationship with Keanu Reeves, you want to try to let her down as easy as you can, right?

[00:28:03] Det. Newbanks: Absolutely. It's in, in this line of work, doing it for as long as I have, and in all the aspects that I've been a part of with the sheriff's office, you very quickly and rapidly have to change your hats in the sense of I'm going to, to make contact up until that door opened and we had this conversation, again, my immediate thought was, okay, this individual is, is a suspect in this. So we go in thinking that she's involved and then very rapidly discover, oh no, she's unsuspecting as well. You, you very quickly have to, have to change gears from looking at it from okay, you're involved to, oh, man you're, you're a victim as well. Okay, let's go ahead and, and get this situated, not only for my victim in Marion County, but obviously, for this victim down here as well who had no idea.

[00:28:51] Bob: It doesn't take that long for Dianne to realize the full extent of everything that has happened.

[00:28:57] Det. Newbanks: As soon as we started talking about financials and I started indicating the, the transactions that I was looking at based on my victim here, it was relatively quick. She goes, "Wait a minute. I've been speaking to Keanu Reeves," and then at that point, that's when I told her, "Well, that's who my victim believes she's been talking to as well." And then at that point Dianne showed me everything that she had. Luckily for us, for the sake of this case, she was very good about maintaining documentation, which was helpful because it, it was able to show us the amount of money that she had sent to "Keanu Reeves" over the, the course of three years. And so this isn't anything that, that happened quickly, for her, unfortunately, this was a, a very long and drawn-out tenure of a relationship that she had with this unknown individual, and thousands of dollars were sent.

[00:29:46] Bob: And she was obviously cooperative, so at that point you realize that she's on your side, not his side, right?

[00:29:52] Det. Newbanks: Correct.

[00:29:54] Bob: Did, did she cry? How did she react?

[00:29:55] Det. Newbanks: She was very upset, rightfully so. Especially if you believe that you're, you're in a relationship with somebody, whether it's just on the phone or, or a romantic relationship. I mean three years, that's a, that's a very long time to, to build a rapport with somebody. And I think after, after that house of cards fell when we were speaking, I think that was a, a very big pill for her to swallow to realize that that's three years that she's been dealing with this individual and it's, it's all been false.

[00:30:26] Bob: It's all been false. In fact, Dianne was used as a money mule towards the end of the scam.

[00:30:33] Det. Newbanks: What had happened was, this individual was getting money from all over. When I initially got my, my bank results for Dianne's account, I noticed that there were some, some high dollar transactions from Colorado as well, in the timeframe that I subpoenaed. We tried to get a hold of Colorado to try and locate this individual that made these transactions, and we were unable to. But essentially, Diane would get the fund deposited into her account, she would then, in turn, take them out of her account, and then deposit them into an online-based bank for investment and, and cryptocurrency. At that point, once they made it into that account, they would be sent to bitcoin, another form of cryptocurrency, and then they would be transferred out and withdrawn.

[00:31:19] Bob: As the reality of the entire situation starts to sink in, Dianne as to come to terms with the fact that she, well not only had all that money stolen from her, she sold her house, she sold a car, but also, her accounts were used by the criminal to steal money from other people too.

[00:31:39] Bob: So that money, you didn't get to keep that money. That money went into evidence, right?

[00:31:44] Dianne Ringstaff: Oh yeah, no, yeah, it wasn't my money. None of it was.

[00:31:48] Bob: That, that was money that, that other victims were sending, right?

[00:31:52] Dianne Ringstaff: Yeah. And they, he had told me they were his investors.

[00:31:56] Bob: God. So when you understood that this account was being used to help him steal from other people, how did that feel?

[00:32:05] Dianne Ringstaff: I was sick. Sick. Sick to my stomach.

[00:32:10] Bob: So Detective Newbanks leaves that day, but there is still a lot of work to be done.

[00:32:16] Det. Newbanks: When I leave the, the status of things at that point is I obtained more information from Dianne as far as banking information. Once I got that banking information, then of course there's, there's additional investigative subpoenas that go out to put more pieces together to try and essentially trace the money from my victim in Marion County to Dianne, from Dianne to the unknown. The subpoenas then gave us information from where the money was going from Dianne's account to essentially where it ended up.

[00:32:45] Bob: Um, but at this point, she's not a suspect anymore, right, or, or is she under any kind of legal jeopardy, even at that point?

[00:32:51] Det. Newbanks: Uh no. At that point once uh, once she brought up the fact that she too was talking to Keanu Reeves, she showed us messages and all that kind of stuff that, that very quickly went from oh you're, you're a person of interest in this case to, oh yes, ma'am, you were an unfortunate victim as well.

[00:33:09] Bob: Are you pretty persuaded at that point that she will break off contact with Keanu and not send her any more money, or are you still worried about that?

[00:33:18] Det. Newbanks: Um, there was for, for both victims, unfortunately there was a little bit of hesitation on, on my part on whether or not they would, they would just cease comm-- communication right then and there. Because I think after, my victim in Marion County was only from October until February. So you're talking, what is that, four months? Whereas Dianne has three years. That's a big hurdle for them to get over, I believe, with, well I've been talking to this guy for, for three years. He's, oh, how's your day? How's, oh are, I know that, that you had this kind of an appointment. How did that appointment go off, go? And there's, there's a lot of interpersonal communication that wouldn't come from just regular business transactions for a three-year relationship, whereas the relationship is built upon, I mean, false concern and false intimate knowledge. And to just have a detective show up at your door and say, yeah, all of, all of these conversations, the beliefs that you had that this individual was legitimate and they were concerned, um, there's, there's obvious concern that that would be very hard to, to just cut, cut off at the head and, and move on without any kind of follow up communication.

[00:34:28] Bob: There is this, I would think, just powerful urge to call up and, "Why did you do this? You're a jerk!" or something like that, right?

[00:34:34] Det. Newbanks: Absolutely. And that's something that up until when I, when I first met with Dianne, we did speak with her about that. That was one of those things, hey, don't, we don't want to, don't tip the cards yet. We've still got, got information that we're going to try and obtain for financial records for everything else, so we don't want to necessarily let them know that we're onto them, but, however, don't keep sending money. There was other non-, non-pertinent communication, just hey, how are you? That kind of thing. But it was never initiated by any of the victims. It was always initiated by the suspect.

[00:35:09] Bob: There's little hope either victim will get any of their stolen money back.

[00:35:13] Det. Newbanks: That is something that Hillsborough County is still working on. Unfortunately, based on the investigative subpoenas and everything that we were able to find when we were able to trace the, the money, we were able to trace it to a out of country account in Nigeria.

[00:35:28] Bob: In other words, no.

[00:35:29] Det. Newbanks: And unfortunately, for, for us when jurisdictional boundaries and such, um, whenever you get, get cases that go internationally such as this, you have the, the hurdle of, well will they or won't they respond to any legal process from the United States? We were able to, to get in contact with the bank in Nigeria. They were able to provide us with information under the caveat of, listen, we don't have to, but we will. And essentially, we were, we were able to identify somebody, but unfortunately, with jurisdictional boundaries there was nothing else that we could do at that point other than to forward the investigation to the FBI in the hopes that they would be able to, to follow up with it.

[00:36:12] Bob: One element of this romance scam that is pretty alarming and certainly a big part of the reason that Dianne was manipulated into sending money, was the deep fake technology, the voice cloning the criminals used.

[00:36:25] Det. Newbanks: They did sound relatively good and unfortunately, it's one of those things where again, as AI technology, I mean we're, we're very much on the, the beginning stages of that and with the way that technology's advancing, it's only going to get better and better. And that's what I'd explained to her like you can, you can run any, any kind of AI program and, and get a, a voice file and have it generate any kind of message from anybody, um, as long as there's some kind of basis for this program to run a soundalike program with to where it could, it could sound like Keanu himself. And then obviously, once you type in what you want the program to say, I mean you could say, Dianne. You could, if there's a pet name or, or something like that. I mean you could have, have this program say whatever you want to where oh, yeah, this is, this is him. This proves that we have been talking because he's mentioning something that, that we spoke about three months ago. Well if this wasn't legitimate, how would anybody else know that we talked about that three months ago?

[00:37:26] Bob: I just think it's hard to not come to the conclusion that in a world where somebody might be teetering on the edge, I do, I don't, maybe I believe this, maybe I don't, that something like that could be awfully persuasive to push someone into the, okay, I do believe this world, don't, don't you think?

[00:37:40] Det. Newbanks: Very much so. And I think that's going to be the, one of the biggest hurdles that law enforcement is going to have moving forward with these types of scams is because as the criminals and these suspects get a little bit more information and, and technologically advanced, it's going to be harder for these unsuspecting victims to believe that it's, it's not legitimate. Gone are the days where you just get a, a phone call on a land line. So yes, it's, it's extremely believable and it's, unfortunately, it's only going to get more so believable as, as technology advances.

[00:38:11] Bob: Gone are the days where we used to tell people to look for misspellings, right?

[00:38:14] Det. Newbanks: That's it.

[00:38:14] Bob: It's used to be obvious.

[00:38:15] Det. Newbanks: That's it.

[00:38:16] Bob: So she was in a bad spot to begin with. How, how much of a factor do you think that might have been?

[00:38:21] Det. Newbanks: I think that that plays a lot into it. And I don't necessarily know if, if there was any kind of previous knowledge to those points to where that could have been something that they knew prior, as far as why they spoke with Dianne, but I think it's, it's one of those things where if these suspects and criminals are, are knocking on the door, so to speak, and somebody opens it and they initiate a conversation, well depending on, on how receptive the victim sounds on the phone, I think it could be relatively easy for them to talk about personal things eventually and, and get all of that information, oh, well, I know Dianne had a, had a dog 12 years ago that she really liked and unfortunately, it, it died. Well, if we're talking about that and then I can see that Dianne's getting emotional, then at that point, okay, that's something that I can, I can try to build on, not necessarily build onto, to immediately get anything, but that's, that's going to be a coin in the jar of the rapport that these guys have with these victims, whereas every time they can show a little bit of empathy for something that the victim has going on or had going on, I think at that point it just, it builds the validity for the victims of, okay, they do really, they're genuine. They're concerned about me. They know that I've got a lot going on. They're asking about issue A, B, and C, that I've got currently going on and, and it just continues to build that personal connection with these folks. And unfortunately, the criminals and the suspects they, they could care less. They're, they're in it for a long game for a payout.

[00:39:54] Bob: A coin in the jar of the rapport. What a, what a great, but terrible, phrase.

[00:40:00] Det. Newbanks: Yeah.

[00:40:02] Bob: As for Dianne, it's been almost a year now and we are happy to report that things have really turned around for her.

[00:40:09] Dianne Ringstaff: So I am totally, for the majority, debt-free. Of course I had to get another car so that's in, in that $160,000. I had to get a new car and a car loan. So yeah, but now I am so happy and trying to put all this behind me, but you know when someone takes your, your heart, (chokes up) sorry.

[00:40:39] Bob: It's okay, take your time.

[00:40:41] Dianne Ringstaff: Plays with your emotions for two years, and then it's not really him. And then you find out this person or people are doing this are in Nigeria, you just want to die. So...

[00:41:02] Bob: I'm so amazed and happy that you made it to the other side of this tough. You got your life back together. That's, that's just so impressive.

[00:41:10] Dianne Ringstaff: Yeah, and I couldn't be happier. I don't sound that way now, but (laughs) just reflecting, just reflecting back, it just, you know, gets you.

[00:41:26] Bob: Of course. Yeah, yeah.

[00:41:29] Dianne Ringstaff: So (laugh) then this came down like a ton of bricks on me and then I got mad, upset, you know, just everything. So I've become a really strong person through all this.

[00:41:45] Bob: Well I'm so glad to hear that you are on the other side of this now and you've gotten your life back together. You have your own place and so...

[00:41:52] Dianne Ringstaff: Yes, I, I'm moving the week after next.

[00:41:55] Bob: Oh how exciting. Now you get to decorated again.

[00:41:57] Dianne Ringstaff: Yes, and I am so excited. I am so happy and excited.

[00:42:03] Bob: Tell me a little bit about the apartment. What, one bedroom, bath or how big is it?

[00:42:07] Dianne Ringstaff: Yeah, it's in Bradenton. It's back in Bradenton where I used to live, where me and my boyfriend lived actually in the same part. It's Manatee County. And um, it's beautiful, and it's just, I love the area, and it's close to the beaches, and um, it's just, I, I really like Manatee County a lot. And um, it should be, it should be wonderful. I mean the, the apartment is beautiful and I just can't wait.

[00:42:46] Bob: Close to the beaches, I'm very jealous, especially this week.

[00:42:48] Dianne Ringstaff: Yeah, I'm...

[00:42:51] Bob: Oh, be careful, we're all going to come visit you.

[00:42:52] Dianne Ringstaff: ... a mile or two from the beach. (laughs)

[00:42:55] Bob: What is it that you want people to learn from hearing your story?

[00:42:59] Dianne Ringstaff: Please do not believe anyone on the internet unless you already know them. Because there's AI. They could do voiceovers, picture over everything and, and make it look and sound like someone else. So if you don't know this person, actually know this person, do not send money over the internet at all. Because it will destroy you. It will destroy you.

[00:43:41] Bob: Criminals will destroy you, especially when they can sense you're vulnerable.

[00:43:48] Bob: You know there's one other thing I want to talk to you about because I mean I think you've been pretty hard on yourself, uh, but I think people need to hear about this because everyone gets into this, we all have ups and downs in life, right, and you were in a really tough spot when this guy approached you. You had thought you had, you know, your future figured out with your boyfriend and your house and your dog, and then those are taken away from you. And so you were very vulnerable, right?

[00:44:11] Dianne Ringstaff: Very. Very vulnerable. And he, it was like he knew where something, because he got me, he got me at a good time.

[00:44:22] Bob: A good time for him.

[00:44:23] Dianne Ringstaff: Yeah.

[00:44:24] Bob: Yeah. They, somehow they have a sense of when people are vulnerable, and they go in for the kill.

[00:44:28] Dianne Ringstaff: Yeah. And that's exactly what happened.

[00:44:31] Bob: So I wonder if you could just say something special for people who might be listening who might be vulnerable. Maybe they just lost a loved one or they're just in a, a really, you know, down time in their life. Do you have anything you could say to them?

[00:44:41] Dianne Ringstaff: I would say, please go talk to someone. Go talk to a loved one. Go to friends, family, and just if you are already talking to someone that you're not sure about over the internet, tell your friend or family what, you know, just don't make yourself vulnerable to people you don't know over the internet. Because this is what can happen. And take my word for it. You'll be sorry for the rest of your life.

[00:45:17] Bob: Detective Newbanks spends a lot of time nowadays trying to teach would-be victims how to spot deep fakes. It's not easy.

[00:45:27] Det. Newbanks: Um, the victim in Marion County, she actually showed me a video that she had received online that was AI generated. Unfortunately, she wasn't able to, to pick up on the clues and the just looking at the video to see that it, it was questionable. And when she showed me the video, it was a, a AI generated video whereas Keanu Reeves was depicted as playing with his face a lot. He was rubbing his beard, and while he was rubbing his beard, he was moving his hands. Well the biggest telltale for me when I observed this video and I brought it up to her was that Keanu Reeves didn't have any fingernails. Obviously as, as AI technology is going to improve, little things like that are going to become harder and harder to, to differentiate with our naked eye as opposed to having to run it through a, a computer program or something like that. But those are, are little details that unfortunately, my victim didn't pick up on and once I told her that, you could just, you saw the, the wave of emotion go over her face as, wow, I, I didn't catch that. That's crazy. But now you have to tell people that well make sure that your videos have fingernails. I mean that's absurd. You, you, if you would have told, told somebody 20 years ago, oh in, in 20 years we're going to have videos that are going to look legitimate and you're going to have to look for a detail as far as them not having fingernails to see if it's believable or not. I mean think about where technology was 20 years ago. We were all running around with flip phones in our pocket.

[00:46:52] Bob: Detective Newbanks also said, you know it's worth doing a little internet sleuthing when you first start chatting with someone.

[00:47:00] Det. Newbanks: While we're speaking, I was able to pull out my phone and say, look this is, this is just the, the first page of a Google result that I did right in front of you. Google came back at, at .02 seconds with 100 results of, of these romance scams involving Keanu Reeves. And my victim in Marion County was, was very surprised because she believed it so much to where she never even thought to try to google to see if there was anything nefarious with it just because it was, it was so very well laid out and eloquently played to her that it was legitimate.

[00:47:33] Bob: It, it seems ridiculous to me, but I always tell everyone, whoever you're talking to, whatever company name, person, type that into Google followed by the word scam and see what happens.

[00:47:42] Det. Newbanks: Absolutely.

[00:47:44] Bob: On the other hand, sometimes what's not on Google is a tipoff too. Keanu Reeves' alleged dispute with his manager was not in the news.

[00:47:54] Dianne Ringstaff: The, one of the detect--, detectives said to me, he said, "Well don't you think it would have been all over the news if Keanu Reeves was in all this trouble?" And, and I said, "You know, that thought never ever crossed my mind," and it should have. Why didn't it? I don't know why it didn't, 'cause I was so busy with everything that I didn't even stop and think.

[00:48:25] Bob: Well he had you all tied up doing a thousand things for him.

[00:48:28] Dianne Ringstaff: Yeah, plus I was working and everything else.

[00:48:33] Bob: The fight against scams like these, well it's a real uphill battle, and sometimes it feels like law enforcement is falling behind.

[00:48:42] Det. Newbanks: Like the biggest thing with these are, unfortunately, with, with Dianne's case in point, law enforcement, generally we like to be proactive. We know that there is, there's speeders, we're going to put traffic units in, on the road to, to prevent speed. We're going to have extra patrols if there's weird activity, suspicious activity in the middle of the night. We're going to, we're going to try to be proactive to jump out in front of anything happening. Unfortunately, with these scams, law enforcement is extremely reactive and the, the downside to that is, by the time the victims like Dianne, they've had three years' worth of interaction with this individual. That's three years that this, this criminal has on us as far as a timeline. Whereas, we have to react to the information that we get from the victim when they finally realize, hey, something’s not right and they contact us. We're then reacting to everything that has happened from the initiation of the phone call, from the email, to the initiation of the report. And a lot of times we're playing catch up and they're, they're five, six steps ahead of us. And it's extremely difficult.

[00:49:52] Bob: And that's why it's important all of us do our part.

[00:49:57] Det. Newbanks: The biggest thing for prevention, make sure that all of your, your personal information, if you can't verify who you are talking to as a legitimate agent or representative of company or anybody that you do business with, hang up. Don't open the email. Definitely don't click on any links. For both of these cases, they uh, they initiated conversation over applications on a phone, through games, where we've got all these games and everybody, I mean you can watch the news for all of these, the online sex predator stings where oh, they're getting kids on the, on these, these video games, and they're chatting with the kids. Unfortunately, they're doing the same thing with our elderly population too. Obviously, it's, it's a different type of crime, but the, they know that these people frequent these types of games. Whether they're looking for some kind of interaction, albeit friendship, just some kind of outside communication with somebody else, and they know that, and they'll, they'll pick up and, and try to communicate that way. So I know everybody wants to have fun on their phones and everybody wants to play Scrabble and, and that kind of stuff, but the biggest thing is if you can't confirm who you're playing with, keep conversations minimal. Don't give any kind of information. Just hey, that was a great game. Oh, well played. Just, just main, mainly just, just basic stuff. Don't give anything over the phone, over an email that, that could be used to cause you to a) incur a financial loss, or b) have your, your name and all your personal information used to, to do nefarious acts.

[00:51:37] Bob: Play the games, have fun, but keep it very, very light. And keep your distance. For The Perfect Scam, I'm Bob Sullivan.

(MUSIC SEGUE)

[00:51:55] Bob: If you have been targeted by a scam or fraud, you are not alone. Call the AARP Fraud Watch Network Helpline at 877-908-3360. Their trained fraud specialists can provide you with free support and guidance on what to do next. Our email address at The Perfect Scam is: theperfectscampodcast@aarp.org, and we want to hear from you. If you've been the victim of a scam or you know someone who has, and you'd like us to tell their story, write to us. That address again is: theperfectscampodcast@aarp.org. Thank you to our team of scambusters; Associate Producer, Annalea Embree; Researcher, Becky Dodson; Executive Producer, Julie Getz; and our Audio Engineer and Sound Designer, Julio Gonzalez. Be sure to find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. For AARP's The Perfect Scam, I'm Bob Sullivan.

(MUSIC OUTRO)

END OF TRANSCRIPT