Bonus: AARP’s Guide to Avoiding Holiday Scams

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[00:00:01] Bob: Welcome back to The Perfect Scam. I'm your host, Bob Sullivan, and this week we have a very special episode for you. It's the end of the year, and while we always want you to have your guard up against scams, this time of year it's particularly important with all the hustle and bustle and online shopping and travel; well what cybersecurity people call our attack footprint is much bigger. There are so many more moments of vulnerability. And so I am delighted to have Amy Nofziger here with us. She's a frequent Perfect Scam guest; she's a frequent guest on your televisions. You've probably seen her lots of times. She is AARP's Director of Victim Support for the Fraud Watch Network. She's the one who coordinates the Fraud Watch Network helpline with all those great volunteers who help people, and we'll talk about that again at the end of the episode. But today, Amy is here to talk about end of year scams, holiday scams, and several other new variations on old scams that have come into the Fraud Watch Network. She's also got some fresh data out of new research AARP has concluded.

[00:01:18] Bob: So Amy, thank you so much for coming back on The Perfect Scam.

[00:01:20] Amy Nofziger: Thanks for having me, Bob. It's always a pleasure to be on your show.

[00:01:24] Bob: There are scams that are really common that everybody needs to look out for, and then there are scams that are unique and make for good headlines. We're going to talk about a few things that are in between, maybe these are not scams necessarily that everyone is going to see, but they're happening, and it does show the depth of the crimes that are out there. For the holiday season, maybe some people are out there hoping that they're going to receive a diamond or they're looking to buy a diamond for the holiday season, but some people are receiving diamonds in the mail they didn't expect. What's going on there, Amy?

[00:01:55] Amy Nofziger: Yes, and let's just be 100% clear, these are not real diamonds, so don't think you got lucky. They're nothing but glass. But this is just a variation of what's called a brushing scam. And sometimes I laugh at the names that people give these scams, but essentially what it is, you receive an unsolicited item in the mail. It maybe comes from a large retailer like Amazon or it might say Walmart on it. You open it up and there's no sender information. So you're like, oh my gosh, who sent me this diamond ring? It must be a secret admirer. Unfortunately, you might think it's from your betrothed, your, your boyfriend or girlfriend, and you just are looking for information. And oftentimes, it might have a QR code in there, so you think, oh, this is the, this is where I need to go. You scan the QR code, but that is nothing except an entry point into some identity theft. And we also have heard from the postal inspector that says this is also a way for uh vendors to post fake online reviews of the merchandise. Because they have a "verified buyer or recipient," i.e., you, they send out this fake merchandise and then they are able to write the fake review of this item in your name. And that does help them fraudulently boost or inflate the product's ratings or their sales numbers. So my best advice of this, if you get any unsolicited item in the mail and it's asking you to scan a QR code or give any personal or financial information, just stop. It's probably just an entry point into this scam.

[00:03:32] Bob: And it falls into the broader category of when something is a big surprise, boy you should just stop in your tracks and wonder, why would someone send me something? Why would someone call me with something that I didn't expect. Those surprises are often entry points for crime, right?

[00:03:46] Amy Nofziger: Absolutely. If it comes out of the blue to you and you're not expecting it, that is one of the number one red flags of any scam.

[00:03:53] Bob: Okay, so speaking of out of the blue, there's another holiday related scam that we've seen out there called a gift exchange scam. Now sometimes people join these secret Santa groups. My family is currently debating this. It's nice to simplify your holiday shopping with one of those things, but this is more of an anonymous scam. So what is this gift exchange scam that's going around?

[00:04:13] Amy Nofziger: Yeah, we see these a lot every holiday season pop up on social media. And oftentimes you might even see one of your friends post about it, so you think there's a little credibility there because one of your social media friends has posted this. It says something like, hey everyone, we need to build up our community, and we all like receiving gifts or whatever it is. So let's do this secret sister gift exchange or neighborhood gift exchange for the good of the community. And so they'll say, okay, you sign up, you send somebody, whether it's a bottle of wine, a $10 e-card, or you purchase something and you send it to somebody. And then in return, you are supposed to get gifts from those people. It's like a pyramid scheme in a way. Um, I've seen a couple of these even come across my social media pages in the last couple of years. I would suggest you not do this. I know, especially for the parents out there, you're often the one buying the gift, not necessarily receiving them, but I don't think this is the way that you want to receive a gift, 'cause most likely you are going to buy a stranger a present and get nothing in return. In addition, if it does go out to the larger social media world, many of you are signing up with some personal information that might just be a piece of the puzzle some cyber thieves need to steal information from you. So stick to local, stick to people you know, stick to people that you can hang out with at your house in if you're doing any kind of gift exchange.

[00:05:43] Bob: And this is such a shame because it sounds lovely and it's a pay-it-forward ethos, right? Go ahead and buy coffee for the person behind you in line at your local coffee shop; that's a lovely thing to do. And if you are, have any urges whatsoever to do a secret gift exchange online, do it at home instead, right?

[00:06:00] Amy Nofziger: Absolutely. Do it with your book club, your garden club, whomever it is, do it with people that you can actually see them open the gift, because isn't that the excitement of it, is watching someone open a gift that you give them that you know they're going to love and enjoy.

[00:06:17] Bob: Okay, so speaking of gifts, the end of the year is a time when a lot of people open their hearts and open their wallets to, to donate, which is a great thing; we support that. There's a lot of advice on the good ways to donate that you can get from AARP, but there's a specific donation scam that I've seen actually walking onto the train in a couple of times, and not that long ago, so how, how does that scam work?

[00:06:39] Amy Nofziger: There are scams everywhere, and one of the methods is to pull on your heartstrings, right? And also to catch you off guard. So like you said, you were probably hustling to catch your train and see someone doing a donation for maybe a local person that passed away and they're trying to raise money for a funeral or help their children or whatever it is, and they're just asking for a small amount, maybe $5, and not all of us carry cash. So that they're, oh, we'll take it Cash App, we'll take Venmo. Oftentimes just for ease of it you might even hand over your phone. The next thing you know, it's not 5 thou--, or $5, it's $5,000 that they've tapped into your Cash App or Venmo. As hard as it is to say no to these really strong emotional appeals, my best advice is to say no. Say, "I'll do some research. Do you have a website I can go to? Where can I verify this?" Or you can say, no, as a complete sentence, and say, "No, I don't have that with me right now." And then donate to your favorite charity. Any legitimate charity out there wants your money anytime of the day, anytime of the year, and they're not going to do emotional pleas. They want you to give your hard-earned money to them without any guilt.

[00:07:50] Bob: No is a complete sentence. I love that.

[00:07:53] Amy Nofziger: It is. I say it every day.

[00:07:55] Bob: (laughs) I feel like it should be a bumper sticker, and yeah, I, the best advice I've ever heard from people who work on charity fraud is never donate money on the spur of the moment. Donate money thoughtfully. Research the company. You usually have that urge, someone pulls at your heartstrings; go home and donate to the thing you've been, already been donating to a little bit more if you feel like it, but never donate on the spur of the moment.

[00:08:19] Amy Nofziger: Yeah, absolutely. I was walking in my parking lot the other day and a, a gentleman had a little booth on the sidewalk and he asked me about it. And they always have a hook question. I don't know if it was legitimate or not, but I'm not going to give out money on the street corner as I'm trying to get to my car. So I just said, "Hey, what's your website? I'll do some research and I'll give that way if I'm interested in your organization."

[00:08:37] Bob: There you go. Okay. This time of year there is so much mail going around, there is so much packaging going around, so many text messages flying around like, "Your order is on the way." "Your order is delayed." And many of those are normal, but it's also a really wide-open doorway for criminals to send you messages that you might click on because you're getting so many other messages that are like it. What is this USPS text message scam that's going around?

[00:09:02] Amy Nofziger: This one goes around anytime of the year, but certainly we can predict it's going to spike during the holiday season because we're all expecting and/or sending packages in the mail to people, so the text says, "Your package was delayed due to whatever issue that they'll make up. Click on this link and verify a couple of pieces of information so it doesn't get stalled any longer." And again, you're thinking, oh, I actually did send a package to someone, or I know someone's sending me the package. It's not a coincidence. It's 100% a scam. And what I say to people too is, during the holiday season, if you are someone who's sending a lot of packages, keep track of them whether it's on a piece of paper or in an Excel spreadsheet. Have the expected ship date. Have the vendor. If you know who the shipping company is, even great. But that just helps you keep track and stay on top of it, and also, most of the times, if there is a problem with your shipment, you will hear from the vendor that you purchased it from, not from the shipping entity. I will say honestly, I order a lot of packages from my favorite clothing retailer, and if there is ever a problem with that shipment, I will hear from them directly. I don't even know who the shipper is, if it's UPS, FedEx, USPS, so I always hear from the vendor. So just keep that in mind this holiday season.

[00:10:24] Bob: And you can always go to the place you bought it from and go directly to their website; type in Amazon.com, and see if there's a problem that, that way, again, you're not reacting to an unexpected message. Is that the right method?

[00:10:36] Amy Nofziger: Yeah, absolutely. We're all busy this time of year and so we think, oh, this is so great that they sent it to us, but just remember, you're in control. And like you said, Bob, just go directly to the vendor that you purchased the product from. You can go into your account and it'll say right then and there what the shipping date is and when it's expected so you don't get caught up in one of these shipping scams.

[00:10:56] Bob: Okay, so speaking of text messages that fly all around. I have received a steady stream of text messages telling me that I owe for a toll that I drove through in Illinois that I ignored and I haven't been in Illinois for a couple of years, or in New Jersey where I have been often. This, these, this toll message scam has really touched a nerve, and it's gone through several waves over the last couple of years. But I know there's brand-new AARP research for the holiday season, but one of the questions that was asked was, how many people, how frequent are these toll scam texts sent around? So what did you learn?

[00:11:32] Amy Nofziger: So we learned the 58% of the people that we spoke to in the survey have received one of these fraudulent text messages about the unpaid tolls, and I think it's important to note during the holiday season, because a lot of us are going to be traveling and we might go on a toll road; just in the last four days I've been on three different toll roads in three different states, right? We do travel on them and that's why this scam worked really well. And I think I also want to point out why it worked well is because the toll that they're saying you owe is a small minimal amount. It's $5, $6. They're not saying the toll is $150. So you think, oh, I probably was on that road, it's only 5 bucks, I'm going to go ahead and just pay it now. But what the criminals are actually after is your credit card information. So the minute you enter your credit card information to pay that $5 toll, then they're going on a shopping spree with your credit card number. So again, if you get one of these and you're surprised to get one, it's most likely a scam and any time you're going to get a toll, it usually does come in the mail or you might even have an account set up with that toll road and it's going to just get directly billed to the credit card you have on file with them.

[00:12:44] Bob: To stick up for drivers and consumers for a moment, I, I have been through this myself where I drove through a toll in a state I don't normally go through. I didn't realize it. And then you get a letter that says you owe $5, but if you don't pay it by this date, you'll owe $100. And that drives you all the more to be like oh, I've got to fill this out just in case. So it's, they know the fine is out there, and that's one of the reasons I think people react emotionally to these text messages.

[00:13:10] Bob: Yeah, I know, right. And one of the things that we have seen with this is that the scammers then moved on to, because you didn't pay this toll, now your license is going to be revoked. And so then you're getting a text message from what they're saying is the DMV, right. So they're just multiplying upon scams. So again, any unsolicited text message that you get that says you owe money or personal information, do not follow through with it, and go to the source that they say that they are and verify it there.

[00:13:44] Bob: Okay, so I know that survey asked a lot of questions of consumers. What are the highlights from the survey?

[00:13:49] Amy Nofziger: So certainly, many consumers plan on shopping online. They found out that 23% are intending to increase their online shopping from last year, which I actually found interesting because anytime I go to a shopping mall, yes, there are still shopping malls out there, they are packed. And so I'm like, who are these people that are still doing all of their shopping online, but the reason that's important to know is that there's an increase in online shopping is because we do know that there's a lot of places that scammers are waiting for individuals. So we always talk about the hot item of the year. I am getting up in age where I don't really know the hot item of the year is, but usually it's some sort of toy or sneaker, and the gift buyers are going online and doing a search for that item. So let's just say it's Nike Air Force 1s, you do a search whereas most of the regular retailers are out of stock, and you find this website that has it in stock, right? You go; you click. Of course they have your size. You put in your personal information, your credit card information. You never get the product, but yet certainly they have charged your credit card or your Venmo account. So I tell people, if you're going to a new website, take the name of the website, the company name, put it into a new search engine. Type the word scam, fraud, complaint after it. See what other consumers experiences are, or just stick to the retailers that you know and trust.

[00:15:17] Bob: I, within the last couple of days, read something about a shocking number of people are now buying off those Instagram ads, which are just popping by like viruses. And some of them are very clever, but a large portion of those Instagram ads lead to retailers, or almost all retailers that are non-traditional. And some of them are legit. I've bought things that way, but there are a lot of them that are scams. I see the survey says nearly half of adults say they've bought something through social media ads, a huge jump from last year. So do you have any advice for people buying things through social media ads?

[00:15:51] Amy Nofziger: I will just say I highly recommend people to not purchase through online ads unless you absolutely know that the ad you're clicking on is taking you to the vendor you want to buy. We have had many complaints on the helpline of people seeing ads on whether it's Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, that are advertising a product like low-cost Louis Vuitton bags or Ray Ban sunglasses. You click on the link thinking you're going to that vendor's website, but you're not. And you're going to a third-party website that doesn't even have the product or has a product that's certainly subpar. People, I think, expect when they go on these social media companies that the ads are vetted and highly scrutinized and they're not. There's actually some research that just came out about some of Meta ads, and how they're just outright fraud. So just anytime you buy from social media ads, just go in eyes wide open and make sure to do your research.

[00:16:54] Bob: Okay, so package theft is on the rise. Lots of people are sending out packages anyway. How much is package theft on the rise?

[00:17:02] Amy Nofziger: It's about 30% of the people that we've surveyed had a package stolen outside of their front door, which is up 5% from last year. I, I keep trying to figure out how we're going to solve for this problem because even myself who has a Ring camera and sometimes when I'm just sitting there and bored, I do watch my child leave the house. But I also see the packages get tossed on my front porch when I have a pot and a brick wall that they could potentially hide them behind. And so we all need to do a better job, whether it's using a locker, whether it's having a neighbor check on them, whether it's doing buy and then picking up. But we know that criminals are following some of these shipping companies and tracking them and going up and just taking the package right off of our front porch. And so we do need to figure out, all of us need to figure out a way to solve for this because I want my package, but I certainly want it on my front porch when I get home.

[00:18:01] Bob: Yeah, and all the solutions are very imperfect, right? Having it sent to a locker or something like that is, can be awfully inconvenient, and you can say I'll run out and get it as soon as it arrives, but what happens when you're on a phone call or doing an interview with The Perfect Scam? You got a package right now; I would be stopping you from running to get it.

[00:18:18] Amy Nofziger: Exactly. Yeah it’s, it isn’t perfect, but I also think we have to think about what our lives looked like multiple years ago when we were surviving by going to pick up our packages or we were just buying stuff at the store, right? So we have to balance the theft of our package and the financial loss vs. the convenience. So even this morning I purchased a dress, and I'm going to pick it up later today at the store so then I know it won't get stolen off my front porch.

[00:18:46] Bob: You're going to the store, remarkable.

[00:18:49] Amy Nofziger: I am going to the store. It's going to be a big adventure for me.

[00:18:52] Bob: (laughs) But if it doesn't fit you can just leave it there.

[00:18:54] Amy Nofziger: I can just leave it there, but also I think we have to remember that we're also suffering, our society's suffering from a little isolation and loneliness right now, so it's actually okay for you to go out in public and have an interaction with someone while picking up a dress.

[00:19:07] Bob: I am all for that. Okay, but going somewhere for the holidays involves travel. And apparently there's an increase in travel scams too. Can you tell me about that?

[00:19:17] Amy Nofziger: Yeah, the criminals, they follow the headlines. They know we're traveling, and they also know like there's a, been a lot of travel issues and there's going to be. So where we hear about this the most is when people are going online and doing searches for their travel company, whether it's their car rental place, their hotel, or their airline, and they're finding fake numbers for these companies. And so you have to think about it; think about, you're at the airport, you're trying to get to Grandma's house. The flight's canceled. There's a long line at the airport, so you're going to try to circumvent that and reach customer service, and you're going to go Google or Bing this phone number. Scammers know that, so they're placing these fake customer service phone numbers. Again, the best advice is we know you are stressed, but take a deep breath, right? Take a deep breath, go to a quiet place, and go directly to the website of the travel vendor that you want to do business with. Try not to circumvent, because that's when you're going to usually end up with a scammer. So let's say you're trying to reach out to United. Go directly to United's page and find out how they are doing customer service with you. There are really no backdoors anymore, right? Usually it's going to be chat, it's going to be email, or it's going to be phone call, or at the counter at the airport. We see this a lot with car rentals. People will do a search for best car rental in Charlotte, North Carolina. They think they're circumventing normal sales. They'll find a criminal phone number, and the criminal will say, yep, I've got a great car for you and actually we have a deal right now with American Express. If you go to the store, buy me a $200 American Express gift card, give me the numbers off the back, that'll be your deposit, and then when you come to Charlotte, North Carolina, your car will only be $50. They get to Charlotte, North Carolina, and there's no car because they gave those numbers to a scammer.

[00:21:17] Bob: Oh, and so now you've had money stolen, that's problem A, but maybe the bigger problem is now you might not make it to Thanksgiving or Christmas dinner.

[00:21:24] Amy Nofziger: You don't have a car, absolutely. Your money was stolen, you don't have a car, and I'm sure at that point when you're at the airport trying to rent a car, prices are certainly going to be a little bit more. So everyone wants a good deal. I get it. But this is one of those places that you really cannot be overly excited about the great deal. If, if you're finding vendors that are renting the car for $100 and you're finding it for $40 a day, to me that's a huge red flag. Not a great deal.

[00:21:54] Bob: Okay, so there's one number in this research that just really floored me, and I'm hoping you can explain to me. It seems like a such a surprise that 1 in 3 consumers have given or received a gift card with no balance, meaning it's been, the balance has been hacked or something? What's going on there?

[00:22:11] Amy Nofziger: So this is certainly a big problem, and it's called card draining. So when you go to the grocery store or wherever you go to buy your gift cards, and you see those huge carousels with the colorful gift cards, there's criminal gangs that actually go around and take the empty or the non-loaded gift cards off of the rack, take them back and they scan all of the numbers and then they get to the silver little shiny thing where the pin number is. They take that off and then replace it with a tape or whatever it is to make it look legitimate. So then they put them back on the racks, and so you, as an unsuspecting target comes into the store, buys the gift card, loads $50 on it for your son's teacher's gift, and the criminals have it set up where they get a ping when money has been loaded on that card. So before you're even out of the store, they can drain the funds off of that gift card and spend it someplace else. So my advice is, if you are buying a gift card for someone, try an e-card, right? A e-gift card. I just sent one to someone this morning via email, right? Then you'll know no one has tampered with it. If you are at the store, it's last minute, buy closer to the front of the store where there's been more eyes on it. Perhaps there's some up by the register, up by customer service. Also inspect the front and the back of the gift card to make sure there's no signs of tampering, and when you load money on the card and the cashier gives you that little receipt, make sure to save that. One, check that money's been loaded onto the card, and then check the receipt and keep the receipt because that's your verification that you loaded money on. So if you give it to the recipient and they're like shyly say to you, hey Bob, you know that gift card you gave me didn't have any money on it, you can call the vendor and they can usually tell you when the money was taken off. So let's say, Bob, you have your receipt you loaded $25 on it at 1:30 pm, and at 1:31 pm that money was spent in Southern California and you're 2000 miles away, certainly then you can prove it was part of a card draining scam.

[00:24:29] Bob: And when you receive a gift card, a lot of times you can register the card and that gives you some extra consumer protections, right?

[00:24:34] Amy Nofziger: Yeah, absolutely. Register the card. You can keep it in your, your wallet, on your smart phone. Also, I think, I give permission to card recipients to tell the person that gave you the card if there's no money on it. Because you imagine like your, your kid's 2nd grade teacher and she gets a $50 gift card for the holidays, and she tries to use it and there's no money on it. That's an awkward situation to go back up to that parent and say, hey, just FYI, there was no money on it, but you need to report it because it was a crime.

[00:25:08] Bob: And I'm also here to say it's great to give your kid's 2nd grade teacher a $50 gift card.

[00:25:13] Amy Nofziger: Oh yeah...

[00:25:14] Bob: They work hard.

[00:25:15] Amy Nofziger: ... that, that's very generous, but I've even heard more. And they deserve it; they deserve every penny.

[00:25:20] Bob: Yeah. Okay, let's close with this. We've already talked about charities a bit, and this number doesn't show any difference, but I still think it's so important to bring up that 6 in 10 adults don't always research an organization or a cause before they make a donation, which has basically been consistent through the years. What, I'm shocked that number is so high after the advice that I think is pretty common, but what can we do about that?

[00:25:44] Amy Nofziger: I think the reason is because again, you don't want to be that guy, right? You don't want to be that guy who's, no, I'm not going to give money to your organization without researching it first. But I'm giving you permission right now to be that guy, and I think that's being a very empowered and proactive and you want your money, your hard-earned money to go to a good charity, and you also want good charities to get other people's hard-earned money. So we want to increase that type of empowerment by checking on the charity. I also recommend to people to avoid the situation of the pressure throughout the year is every January 1st, January 2nd, set up your list of who you want to give money to. Do your research on those organizations, decide how much you want to give to them, have it come out of your paycheck, have it come off your credit card. That way, if someone does come up to you and says something about a charity, say, I've already done my planned giving for the year, but if you want to give me some information about your charity, I'd love to do some research on it and consider you for my charitable giving for next year.

[00:26:47] Bob: Amy Nofziger, please give my best to everyone at the Fraud Watch Network, and in particular, to those wonderful volunteers at the helpline who I know are help, are helping people right now as we speak and help people all throughout the year. We really appreciate the work that you and your organization does.

[00:27:02] Amy Nofziger: We appreciate everything you do to get the message out there, and just remember, anyone can call us on the helpline. We're here for you.

[00:27:09] Bob: Okay, so what's the number?

[00:27:10] Amy Nofziger: The number for the helpline is 877-908-3360 and you can reach us Monday through Friday from 8 am to 8 pm Eastern Time.

[00:27:23] Bob: Thanks again, Amy. Great to have you.

[00:27:25] Amy Nofziger: Thank you.

[00:27:27] Bob: For a lot more information on holiday scams, on that new survey data, and how to research charities, go to AARP.org/holiday scams. Have a happy, healthy, scam-free holiday season. For The Perfect Scam, I'm Bob Sullivan.

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[00:27:59] Bob: If you have been targeted by a scam or fraud, you're not alone. Call the AARP Fraud Watch Network Helpline at 877-908-3360. Their trained fraud specialists can provide you with free support and guidance on what to do next. To learn more about the Fraud Watch Network volunteers and the fraud survivors they've helped, check out the new video series, Fraud Wars, on AARP's YouTube channel. Our email address at The Perfect Scam is: theperfectscampodcast@aarp.org, and we want to hear from you. If you've been the victim of a scam or you know someone who has, and you'd like us to tell their story, write to us. That address again is: theperfectscampodcast@aarp.org. Thank you to our team of scambusters; Associate Producer, Annalea Embree; Researcher, Becky Dodson; Executive Producer, Julie Getz; and our Audio Engineer and Sound Designer, Julio Gonzalez. Be sure to find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. For AARP's The Perfect Scam, I'm Bob Sullivan.

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