Family Fights to Disentangle Father from Romance Scam, Part 1

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[00:00:02] Bob: This week on The Perfect Scam.

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[00:00:05] Christie Mancinelli: We had visited him at his house and he had his email pulled up and there were all sorts of these solicitations for you know I, I guess we call it like the Nigerian Prince scam and things like that, and um, and I recall you just kind of you know very gently like taking him aside and saying, "Hey, you're not really responding to these, are you?" And your dad was like very cavalier about it. He said, "Oh yeah, well you know, I'm the one who's stringing them along, and I'm outsmarting them."

[00:00:32] Chris Mancinelli: Yeah, out scam the scammer he would say.

[00:00:34] Christie Mancinelli: It just makes me wonder if there was some point where he started to get in too deep with stuff and it got away from him.

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[00:00:46] Bob: Welcome back to The Perfect Scam. I'm your host, Bob Sullivan.

[00:00:51] Bob: Sometimes in life you can do everything right and things still go wrong. Today you're going to hear from a son who knew his dad was sending money to online criminals and tried everything to help, but well Dad thought he was paying hospital bills, rescuing friends in need and his need to help was a force too powerful to stop. The story takes so many twists and turns, at one point there's a love affair with WWE wrestler Alexa Bliss and eventually things get so bad that Dad sues the son who is trying to protect him. It feels like years of tension might kill one or both of them, and I think you could say, well it does in the end. But I want to start the story during happier times, during a father/son/daughter-in-law road trip. Here's Chris Mancinelli.

[00:01:47] Chris Mancinelli: It was for my dad's 70th birthday. I guess as, as I got older, you know I, I kind of wanted um, you know like uh, you grow up and then you go away to college sometimes and um, you spend time away and, and then now you, you come back and maybe have a job and get settled somewhere and so now like as an adult I kind of wanted to have um, so of develop a more adult-like relationship with my dad. And so I was trying to spend more time with him. And so we thought let's take him on a trip. So we um, yeah, we had planned a trip to take him out. We took him to, well we flew into Las Vegas but we went to Death Valley, we went to the Grand Canyon, and so we drove around, you know using Las Vegas as kind of a base, but drove around from there and spent time in some various places. Yeah, it was for his 70th birthday and so that was, it was really nice and that's, I think probably the last trip we took together like that.

[00:02:38] Bob: Dad loves the trip but one stop really stands out.

[00:02:44] Chris Mancinelli: One of the interesting things is we drove past like a military installation. I don't know which one out there, you know but um, they were flying drones, you know like uh, drones that we see on TV and um, in the news and stuff. And my dad, you know he, he had been in the Army as a, as a young man and always had kind of interest in military things, so it, it was almost a highlight of the trip for him is watching these drones fly across. We, we pulled over and parked and just watched the drones fly over this airfield. So that was kind of funny.

[00:03:14] Christie Mancinelli: You know we, we were in Vegas and uh, you know I don't know if this was on the way to the Grand Canyon or on the way back, but you know, we passed all sorts of interesting things.

[00:03:23] Bob: That's Chris' wife, Christie.

[00:03:25] Christie Mancinelli: Was it, is it the Hoover Dam, um...

[00:03:27] Chris Mancinelli: Uh yeah.

[00:03:27] Christie Mancinelli: You know we did, and you know we passed things like alien-themed brothels or something, and um...

[00:03:31] Bob: (laughs)

[00:03:33] Christie Mancinelli: You know, but I think the drones were the highlight. They were like, we saw jets too as well, but I, that is something that we, we chuckle about is, is we could have just parked near where the drones were flying and it would have been good enough, but you know we didn't want to just do that. But we had no idea that he had such an interest in drones until, until we got there. But it was nice. It was nice to just spend time with him and, and see him be really enthusiastic about, you know something like this.

[00:03:59] Bob: You had spent a lot of time away when you were a young adult starting your own family, I guess, and then your dad turned 70, you thought this is an opportunity for you guys to reconnect, and it really did work, right?

[00:04:08] Chris Mancinelli: Yeah, yeah, I think it, it was, it was good. And he lived in Virginia, we live in Pennsylvania, so it's about 3½ hours and so we would you know try to make efforts to kind of go down. And he, he wouldn't drive up too much because I think driving was a bit tough for him but um, we tried to go down and just spend time with him as you say kind of connect and build a, an adult relationship now that we had the opportunity.

[00:04:31] Bob: Yeah, that's very beautiful, really. Not many people take the time to do that, so I admire that.

[00:04:35] Chris Mancinelli: Thanks.

[00:04:37] Bob: Reconnecting with dad was even more important because of all that happened in the family history.

[00:04:42] Chris Mancinelli: I guess just from my point of view so my, my mom passed away when I was 9, and so that was 1985, and uh she was just about 40 years old at that time. So it's me and my brother in the house and uh so then my dad, you know, became a single parent and working full-time. And he's a blue-collar worker, so he worked for the um, electric company in New York, Con Edison.

[00:05:03] Bob: Con Ed, yeah. Sure.

[00:05:04] Chris Mancinelli: Yeah. Yeah, so um, you know he was very busy, um, you know, union worker, and he'd get called, called out and stuff. So I mean work was, was tough and now he had to um, I was only 9 so then he had to raise us boys on his own. Before that though, he did, I, I did have a sister. I never, I never knew her. But um, it was their first child, my parents' first child, and um, she died when she was only 3 years old from leukemia.

[00:05:29] Bob: Oh.

[00:05:30] Chris Mancinelli: So my brother was only 1 and um, so yeah, I mean that, I can only imagine how tough that, that would have been. So then my brother was 1 and then I was born I guess five years later. So I, I think it was, yeah, it was a bit tough I think that, that time and him uh raising us and you know I think though reflecting back on my childhood that he, I didn't feel that I guess as a kid, like I, I feel like he always tried to um, support my hobbies. So I, I did spend a lot of time alone with hobbies but he would I think support, either help me get started or you know take me to the hobby store if I needed to get something or um, you know to support my interests. But I can imagine it, it would have been hard for him to do.

[00:06:12] Bob: As is often the case, the two brothers had very different relationships with their dad.

[00:06:17] Chris Mancinelli: Our relationship, mine and my dad's versus my brother, Alan's and my dad's were very different. So they, they were very like combative, you know even growing up like they, they'd be the ones arguing. You know my brother left the house at a young age kind of after a fight, so they, they, you know there was always a great amount of love between them but also a lot of kind of head-to-head interaction whereas...

[00:06:42] Bob: It's very first-born male stuff.

[00:06:45] Chris Mancinelli: (chuckles) Yeah. Um, but I was uh very different, so I was more like I guess my pacifier concilia--, concilia--, that's probably not the right word, but you know we had a more adjoining relationship. I tried to like, I don't know, partner with him and be friend, more like a friend, understand--, try to understand him and then you know act accordingly. So it was a softer relationship, I guess.

[00:07:09] Bob: Despite their sometimes-combative relationship, Alfred trusts his oldest son enough to share access with the family bank accounts.

[00:07:18] Chris Mancinelli: My brother was a co-owner on my dad's bank accounts, and my dad did this, so my brother's, older brother, you know, six years older, also lived in Virginia so lived close by to my dad. And my dad wanted to make sure that at least us, us boys were on his accounts in case anything happened then, then we would have access and, and in the eventual um, case of his passing away there wouldn't be any issues with you know probate for, for his assets or whatever.

[00:07:45] Bob: Alan isn't looking over his dad's shoulder, but one day a few years ago, he does start to notice some strange things on his dad's account.

[00:07:53] Chris Mancinelli: He would get the statements and, and then he would see these amounts of money being either taken out or transferred. This was maybe in 2018, probably 2018 timeframe. And he would question my dad about it, but my dad would be evasive or kind of makeup a story or, or you know say, oh, you know what do you, what, you don't need to be like monitoring my accounts and you know, my brother's point of view I'm not monitoring but is somebody, you know, is, is somebody stealing your money or are you getting charged for stuff that you don't know about. Like don’t, aren’t you worried about these amounts uh mysteriously going somewhere? And it's really out of character for my dad because growing up, again as a, as kind of a I'd say middle-class, you know, blue collar family we, you know money was a, a big concern growing up. Um, you know we didn't have lavish things. We were very fiscally responsible, and he instilled that in us. And so it was a, alarming, and then further alarming that my dad didn't seem to be, you know, too concerned about it. So that was kind of my brother's point of view, and he was sharing it with me. But honestly at the time and I was traveling for work a lot. I got a, we ended up going to Japan on a one-year assignment as well from 2017 to 2018, so I kind of was just leaving all that to my brother and not being directly involved at that time.

[00:09:14] Bob: The family is concerned, but at the moment the transactions are all just a few hundred dollars and well they don't want to seem like they're being heavy-handed with dad. They know that'll just make him shutdown anyway.

[00:09:25] Christie Mancinelli: We were just baffled, like what is this about and, and then I, I think that was when the bad, you know we kind of got a bad feeling because I think up to that point, there were these little things that would happen with the banking situation. But again, I don't know, out of respect for Chris' dad's privacy, uh, you know we, you know, you know I wasn't directly involved, but I know that you guys, you and Alan, Chris, weren't asking too many questions because I think after some point he would get sort of defensive and...

[00:09:55] Chris Mancinelli: Yeah.

[00:09:56] Christie Mancinelli: You know it, it was, it made things tense, uh, relationship-wise.

[00:10:00] Bob: And, and it makes sense, I mean you know, right at the time when you're trying to have a more adult relationship with your dad, you don't want to be treating him like a child and you certainly don't want to be putting him off, right?

[00:10:08] Chris Mancinelli: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[00:10:10] Bob: But over time, Alan decides to confront his father about these transactions and it doesn't go well.

[00:10:17] Chris Mancinelli: When my brother would go to my dad and say, "Hey, what's up with these, this money?" You know it was already; it was like instantly a fight. Um, and so I think that led to my brother saying, "I don't want to do this anymore," like I, I can't watch this happen and not do anything, but I can't do anything 'cause it's just a fight. So he actually transferred the responsibility to me when I got back from Japan in 2018 and then I took over you know monitoring the accounts um, as the co-owner.

[00:10:48] Bob: And now that Chris is more tuned into his dad's account, it becomes clear something is really wrong. He tries that gentle approach to see if he can get to the bottom of it.

[00:10:59] Chris Mancinelli: Yeah, well I guess I kind of more, you know now, now I'm in it, so now I can actually see what my brother was concerned about all the time, you know then try to find my own way to ask the questions without getting shut down and like try to get real answers of what's going on. We knew something had to be going on 'cause the, it's not like the money's gone and then we see a new TV in my dad's house.

[00:11:22] Bob: And there are other strange things happening too.

[00:11:26] Christie Mancinelli: I do remember there were some, some things, like he gave me an eBay gift card for Christmas one year, which I was like, great, I haven't been on eBay for years. I think...

[00:11:34] Chris Mancinelli: It's a strange, it's a strange, I think everybody got like eBay gift cards that year for Christmas.

[00:11:41] Christie Mancinelli: Yeah. And, and so, and so uh, I think I made a comment about, oh, like, you know gift cards. I think there is a service that if you don't like your gift card you can basically send it back and you can get some sort of equivalent exchange and, and I remember your dad saying, like, "Oh I know somebody who can turn them into cash." And...

[00:11:57] Chris Mancinelli: That's right.

[00:11:58] Christie Mancinelli: And I was like “Whoa, really?” And I think Chris, you and I looked at each other and we were just wondering is, is this starting to really spiral out of control? Is this a real friend or is this something that, yeah, he's been getting into uh while, while being online or, or in, through his email.

[00:12:18] Bob: After a few months, Chris can't accept Dad's vague explanations anymore, and during a visit to help with some financial paperwork, the problem becomes clear.

[00:12:28] Christie Mancinelli: I, I think we, we had visited him at his house and he had his email pull-, pulled up and there were all sorts of these solicitations for you know I, I guess we call it like the Nigerian Prince scam and things like that, and um, and I recall you just kind of you know very gently like taking him aside and saying, "Hey, you're not really responding to these, are you?" And your dad was like very cavalier about it. He said, "Oh yeah, well you know, I'm the one who's stringing them along, and I'm outsmarting them."

[00:12:57] Chris Mancinelli: That's true, yeah, out scam the scammer he would say.

[00:12:59] Christie Mancinelli: Yeah, and, you know, we're like, okay, but you know... uh... we didn't feel comfortable with that, but he did try to, I guess reassure us in, in sort of like a, an overconfident kind of way. "Oh, I know what I'm doing," and "Yeah, I'm tricking them." And so it just makes me wonder if there was some point where he started to get in too deep with stuff and it got away from him.

[00:13:22] Bob: And it got away from him quickly.

[00:13:26] Chris Mancinelli: Yeah, so the um, the money kind of, the money-giving was escalating. But I think, I think it did kind of like, what Christie was saying, there was some point where it really did spiral out of control, and I think the money was kind of going in, in several directions, like he was chatting with several different, I'll them romance scammers.

[00:13:44] Christie Mancinelli: But I think the signal was, I think, I think you, you saw some transactions happen that, that was something like either for it was, I don't know 4- or 5-figure transaction. And then I, and it was a, it was around you know the early part of COVID, and I think there was like a 5-figure transaction that happened, and I think uh both you and Alan uh went into high, high alert mode.

[00:14:10] Bob: In some cases, $10,000, even more has been transferred out of Dad's account with no good explanation. And even as Chris, Christie, and Alan start trying to put the pieces together and come up with a plan, it becomes obvious that things are even worse than they realize.

[00:14:27] Chris Mancinelli: It, his bank, um, actually kicked him out, his bank you know said, you know this is potentially fraudulent activity. Um, they, you know, said they, they don't want him banking with them anymore. And so he had to find a different bank. And it was around that time that I also became concerned because of the way he was, you know, giving money or like sending money away. I guess that the withdrawals in the account, I had a fear and one of the scams that happened to him is when the scammer puts deposits into your account that's not real money but it looks like it is, and then asks you to send real money back instantly, you know like, "Oh, I just deposited 8000 by mistake," or, or um, "I need your help, you know, and if you send me 5000 you can keep the extra 3000." So my dad thought, you know fell into these traps. And I had a fear that he would become, go into debt which would then also become my responsibility as a co-owner. Then I actually called the bank to confirm that would be the case and, and so then I told him I actually don't want to be co-owner on your accounts if you're going to continue, or if this activity is going to continue.

[00:15:33] Bob: At this point Chris still doesn't know how much of his dad's money has been stolen, but his relationship with his father is still good enough that he's able to persuade him to go to the police.

[00:15:44] Chris Mancinelli: In 2018, my dad was part of an inheritance scam, um, and he even filed a police report, uh about it. Um, I had encouraged him to file a report. You know I didn't, I didn’t know, you know number one, it kind of makes it real. I didn't expect he was going to get any of his money back but at least it's on record, just, I don't know, just in case. After that there were at least one or two more times where he was involved in something, some kind of scam-related thing where the police were involved.

[00:16:14] Bob: But even with the police Alfred is evasive.

[00:16:18] Chris Mancinelli: And there was another time where like Christie's saying, where a detective showed up at the house and I really struggle to remember the details of like what precipitated that. And it doesn't help that my dad was very evasive about the whole thing. Like he tells you part of the story but not really all the details to give you a full understanding. And it seems that the, any time the police were involved, it was almost like he, he felt like, oh wow, yes, I have been scammed and this is bad and, and you know it was like the authority figure was the only person that could make it real for him.

[00:16:48] Bob: Sure, sure.

[00:16:49] Chris Mancinelli: And um...

[00:16:50] Bob: Makes sense.

[00:16:51] Chris Mancinelli: Yeah, and so, and, and I know in 2020, in mid-2020 in June, was one, another one of these times when he made a police report, and this was related to fake bank transactions, kind of like I mentioned earlier where it looked like he was getting deposits, but they weren't real. So he lost money through that.

[00:17:08] Bob: But he initiated the police contact.

[00:17:11] Chris Mancinelli: In that case, yes, yeah.

[00:17:13] Bob: So I mean he certainly was aware to some extent that he was a victim of a crime.

[00:17:17] Chris Mancinelli: He was. Yes.

[00:17:19] Bob: I mean this sounds like such a tortured existence. He's going back and forth between being a victim and then signing up for things and thinking he's, he's actually got the goods on them and that sounds so painful.

[00:17:29] Chris Mancinelli: It does. It does. Yeah, I often thought about wondered what, what his motivation was, like was it an adventure for him or exciting? Like sometimes you know I, I'd try different methods to, to get through to him, you know. He thought, you know, for the inheritance scam he said, "Oh, it's like a gamble." You know, like maybe, maybe it's a scam, but maybe it's not. And maybe I'll come, you know, make out on this." And, and I would say, "Dad, no. It's never, you're never going to make out. These are not designed that you can ever win."

[00:17:55] Bob: But that's more like buying a lottery ticket, right?

[00:17:57] Chris Mancinelli: Right, then going to a casino.

[00:18:01] Bob: But Dad is still convinced he can make money working with some of these criminals. Chris tries to stay on the same side as his dad to draw more out from him.

[00:18:10] Chris: But I'd say if there's an opportunity here to, to make some money, tell me more, let me get in, let me make money too. You know not intending to get involved, but to learn more about them. And, and he wouldn't open up in those cases either. You know I thought by joining him, maybe that was a tactic that I could use to get more info and, and he'd say "Just let's see how this plays out." And, and then invariably he'd always lose at the end.

[00:18:34] Bob: But Chris does persuade his dad to get some help.

[00:18:37] Chris Mancinelli: But he did see, so he did agree to see a care manager. That was a start, I think. We had an elder care manager go to his house and meet with him. The, the care manager you know, so I hired her and then she gave me, you know, an evaluation of, of how it went, um, and she gave recommendations of what we should do as a family moving forward, you know, understanding the story, you know, that he's repeatedly being scammed and you know she had all the background.

[00:19:02] Bob: But if Chris and his brother had ideas about doing something more drastic, to take control of Dad's finances, well that's not in the cards.

[00:19:10] Chris Mancinelli: So while she was there, she did, um, kind of a cognitive evaluation and she said, "Actually, he's very sharp." So, for example, if we were trying to get conservatorship so that we could manage all of his, you know, affairs, she said no judge would ever, would ever agree to that because your dad is very, uh very cognizant, very aware. He's very sharp even uh some of the, the tests she gave him, he does better than like a teenager. So mentally he's really, he's really there. Um, she said there's no evidence in the house of, you know that he's like, he's got food. Things are, you know, clean enough, you know things are orderly enough. Like he's cooking for himself. Like he's, he's living a good life by all means. So um, you know the recommendation she gave was really about you know more oversight, give him more purpose that uh she thought that he's, he lacks purpose and that he might be bored. So try to, you know, she recommended maybe move down there with him, which was impossible for, for me, and my brother lived in the same neighborhood. But um, you know also to establish some kind of um, like a trust or something that we could have more control over his money even if we could, and his assets, you know his home as well, and even if we couldn't get a conservatorship which actually we weren't looking for a conservatorship to, we don't have, you know we wouldn't be able to like manage fully his whole life. So...

[00:20:32] Bob: Sure, sure.

[00:20:33] Chris Mancinelli: And we didn't want that. And he doesn't, he didn't want that, you know, he was very independent.

[00:20:37] Bob: So, so the care manager had some good suggestions, but also essentially says he's, he's fine.

[00:20:42] Chris Mancinelli: Right, he's just making bad choices.

[00:20:45] Bob: Sure, sure, and he's, he's a free person, he's an adult, so he's entitled to make bad choices, right?

[00:20:50] Chris Mancinelli: Right.

[00:20:52] Bob: Feeling helpless, Chris keeps observing more and more bad transactions in his father's bank account.

[00:20:59] Chris Mancinelli: We set up a trust, so he, my brother and my dad and I sat down, we agreed to set up a trust and we went through that whole process which took some time. Meanwhile my, my dad continued to give money away, and he had investments that he had saved throughout his whole life in Vanguard, and um, you know I started to see the Vanguard accounts being depleted. So now not only did he give away any cash savings, but his investments were being liquidated and then that money was just being given away, and that was through the beginning of 2021.

[00:21:30] Bob: Gosh, that’s awful, so he would either meet them through something as simple as a Nigerian letter or did they play Words with Friends or anything like that? I mean how did he meet these people?

[00:21:37] Christie Mancinelli: He did play Words with Friends. He did.

[00:21:39] Chris Mancinelli: He did.

[00:21:41] Christie Mancinelli: Yeah.

[00:21:41] Chris Mancinelli: He did. And they would reach out just um, he would respond to people who'd just reach out and say, "Hi, how are you?" And then so he'd say, "Do I know you?" And then they'd say, "Oh, I think so." You know that's it.

[00:21:54] Bob: Once these people connected with Alfred, they'd pull on his heartstrings. In many cases the criminal would claim to be injured or sick and at a hospital being denied critical treatment unless Alfred paid the bill. That technique really seems to work.

[00:22:10] Bob: And when it comes to say paying a hospital bill, it was, he never sent money to a hospital, right? He would somehow send them bitcoin or something like that?

[00:22:16] Chris Mancinelli: It was almost always bitcoin. He also used Zelle. He also sometimes used direct wire transfers. But bitcoin was the largest amount and so he'd get cash, he'd convert it to bitcoin, and then send the QR code, but sometimes he thought he was sending it directly to hospitals. So he, they would pass him around. So the, the main person would say, "Talk to the doctor directly," and then on the same chat, so not on a different chat, they would say, "This is the doctor you’re talking to now, sir. You need to pay these bills or we cannot release, you know, the person." And he'd say, "Well just send me the code so I can send the bills, you know, stop holding them hostage." You know he really thought it was a real scenario and, and that he was talking to a doctor and sending money to a hospital, but it was always you know bitcoin. And I, I would ask him, "Dad, what hospital do you know accepts bitcoin?" And he says, "Oh, you don't know, like they all do now." Like that's the, "You're behind the times, son."

[00:23:11] Bob: But even as things seem more and more dire, Chris still tries to pierce the spells his father is under in caring and clever ways.

[00:23:20] Chris Mancinelli: And um, and I would also say, "Are you getting bills?" Like, hey, this is your romantic interest in a hospital? Don't you want to send flowers, like don't you know where, do you know where the address is, do you know what room she's in? You know send, to send a gift, like you know does anything makes sense? And he'd listen to me, and he'd seem to sometimes accept what I'm saying as, yeah, this isn't making sense. But then we'd get off the phone and he’d just be right back into it.

[00:23:48] Bob: It is hard to imagine anything more frustrating than what you're describing to me. What does that feel like?

[00:23:54] Chris Mancinelli: Yeah, it felt terrible. It felt um, you know I guess um, I was trying to build an authentic relationship with my dad and then you know it was very hurtful actually to see.

[00:24:05] Bob: He was listening to you but he wasn't listening to you.

[00:24:07] Chris Mancinelli: Yeah. (choked up) Excuse me, I'm sorry.

[00:24:12] Bob: Christie tries to support Chris through all of this, but it's not easy.

[00:24:17] Christie Mancinelli: It was hard to watch, and this was when I, I think the most intense period of activity where Chris was monitoring his dad and, and watching how his dad interacted with people online, I think the most intense time was during COVID, right, you know 2021 timeframe and you know it just got to this point where, and I know, you know Chris was trying to help his dad understand that these people are not real. Um, some of the situations that they would, they would say that they need money to pay for medical care for I mean and these are supposedly you know attractive young women, it just doesn't fit. And, and Chris would do his best then explain this to his dad, like this is not real. Why don't you have a room number? What hospital is it at? Oh, Cleverland Clinic. That’s not real. There's no such place. There's Cleveland Clinic. Why, you know Chris would question everything? Why do you have to go through an intermediary in Mexico? There was all sorts of holes that Chris was poking into it and, and Chris was, it was like a constant battle of, of fighting against some of these really, I mean these contradictory, this contradictory information that we're getting just from piecing together the information that the scammers would send. And so it, I watched Chris kind of repeatedly just try this over and over, like nearly every day, or if, if it wasn't an active discussion, just watching this happen and unfold in front of him. And, and I think there was one point where I just got really frustrated and I'd say, you know, why is it that you, Chris, have to constantly prove to your dad that these other people are lying? Why can't your dad just believe you instead of always you know always making it, you know, Chris' responsibility to, to disprove these scammers instead of taking you know Chris' side. Um, I, I think I just got so frustrated at that point. I, you know I, I'm like I, and I'm just, what I saw happening to Chris was that it really hurt him, you know like repeatedly seeing that his dad would hop right online and give the money anyway. And it just upset me to see Chris hurting, and, and just trying over and over again, just banging his head against the wall trying to get his dad to understand. That's actually when I lost hope.

[00:26:28] Bob: Of all the fake lovers Alfred had online, all the manipulative stories he's been told, none compares to the relationship he supposedly had with a woman named Alexa Bliss.

[00:26:40] Chris Mancinelli: Alexa Bliss is a real-life um, wrestling um, personality. She's young, attractive, um, married I think now, but um, she uh is the name, the name Alexa Bliss was used by scammers to get my dad to, to convince my dad that he was in a relationship with Alexa Bliss. So he um, yeah, so I mean that's who Alexa Bliss is, um...

[00:27:08] Bob: And so at, at some point someone pretending to be Alexa Bliss contacts him and gets involved in a virtual romance with your dad, right?

[00:27:16] Chris Mancinelli: Yes, that's right, that's right.

[00:27:18] Bob: Um, and, and asks for money and some, it's under some circumstances because of her crazy relationship with Vince McMann, right?

[00:27:26] Chris Mancinelli: Yeah, it was really, it got really um, um, complicated, I suppose. So the, the Alexa Bliss scammer, um, would make, you know, make up stories and, and just draw from, I guess whatever they could find online, um, and they used pictures from online to try to convince my dad, but uh, basically the story was that, you know Vince McMann was very uh like oppressive to her and the other wrestlers. Didn't give them their money. So even though she was making millions, she had no access to it. Uh, he was very controlling so that they weren't allowed to make phone calls or do video chats. Um, they weren't allowed to like visit fans, um, the whole thing was very controlling. So and then she would get sick a lot. She would get hurt. She had um, her, the real Alexa Bliss has a, had a real-time boyfriend now, husband, Ryan Cabrera who is a singer, I think. And I learned all of this because of my dad. Um, and uh, you know Ryan and his thug friends would chase her down because she was trying to get away from Ryan, so sometimes she'd get beat up by the thugs and end up in the hospital again. But in every scenario, there was a request for money. So she couldn't eat because Vince McMann had all her money. So send money for food. You know, so another 5000 or 10,000; it was just thousands and thousands all the time for anything.

[00:28:57] Bob: Now did you...

[00:28:58] Chris Mancinelli: I think he was the most smitten by Alexa. There were other names and other personalities, Toni Storm was another, is another wrestling person who would come along asking for money. Um, but Alexa was kind of, I would say the biggest and the most persistent, and he had photos of Alexa Bliss in his house and ...

[00:29:17] Bob: On his refrigerator actually, right next to pictures of the grandkids. In a desperate effort to get Dad to see the Alexa Bliss relationship isn't real, Alan, his older son, takes Alfred to a WWE show to see Alexa in real life.

[00:29:33] Chris Mancinelli: It turned out the WWE was coming to DC and my brother got tickets for him and my dad to go see Alexa Bliss, you know, live at a wrestling event. They went. They watched her perform. You know that, and so um, and then my brother is like, "Hey, so you know, isn't she going to, you guys are in a relationship, right? Isn't she going to come see you, like she's in town? She knows where you live. Don't you want to hang out or something?" But, of course, Vince McMann would never let that happen. So that's what Alexa, the scammer, told my dad that Vince McMann prohibited any chance of them meeting, but she was so happy that he went to the event.

[00:30:15] Bob: So no, no backstage passes.

[00:30:18] Chris Mancinelli: (chuckles) Unfortunately, no.

[00:30:21] Bob: At one point the Alexa Bliss impersonator even agrees to an online chat with Chris to prove to him that she is real.

[00:30:29] (impersonator) Thank you so much for your message. It was so sweet of you to write me. I'm extremely flattered with your request.

[00:30:37] Chris Mancinelli: The scammer agrees to do a FaceTime with me to prove to me that, that she is who she says she is. So I said, okay, great. We initiated a, a FaceTime chat or I think it was just maybe a video chat through Google Hangouts, and so I recorded it with my other phone, the chat that I was having through the first phone, and what the scammer did was actually just played a publicly available video on the internet, and used their phone pointed at their monitor and it was a, a video, so Christie found it online very quickly, it was a video that Alexa Bliss had done uh just thanking one of her fans. And so, you know, so it's very clear to me the video is a video of a video. You know there's no interaction. I'm like, "Hello." And there's no response, it's just her continuously talking, and then we found the exact video online. So it was a fail on their part. I mean I guess some people fall for that; it's enough for them, but yeah, that, that did happen. There's lots of little things that happened along the way.

[00:31:37] Bob: Lots of little things along the way to keep Alfred on the hook like gifts.

[00:31:43] Chris Mancinelli: Yes. Yeah, the wedding band, there was a wedding band that came early on and um, it was, I think, even before the Alexa Bliss persona came into the, into view. I, I don't remember the year that the wedding, but he, he started wearing a wedding band, and we're, my brother and I are like, what, what's that? What are you wearing? And he, he claimed that he found it in his mailbox. So of course, this makes no sense and the more questions you ask just the more frustrating it gets 'cause he's not answering anything. But he claims that he went to check his mail and in his mailbox was a box with a wedding band, and that's it, nothing else. And then so he started wearing it. And then after we freaked out about it, he stopped wearing it. He also got like small jewelry; kind of trinket jewelry sent to him. He one time got pizza delivered to his house for his birthday. You know all from the scammers. I'm not sure if it was the Alexa Bliss scammer or a different one, but...

[00:32:43] Bob: But certainly getting pizza would be enough to get your father on a hook for another few weeks or months, right?

[00:32:49] Chris Mancinelli: Yeah. I mean if someone sent me pizza right now, I think I, I'd be on the hook for something.

[00:32:54] Bob: (laughs) I was just having the same thought, no one send me pizza. But, but you know again, that's just so unbelievable the extent that these folks would go to to manipulate people like your dad.

[00:33:03] Chris Mancinelli: Yeah, yeah. I mean they had all his information.

[00:33:08] Bob: At this point watching Dad's bank account has become a fulltime task and even then, it's not enough. Eventually it all catches up with Chris.

[00:33:17] Christie Mancinelli: I know there was a time around this time where we were driving, we were on a road trip uh back up to Boston where our offices are located where Chris started to have chest pains. And so what, we pulled off, we ended up near Rutgers, and you know you went to the emergency room, Chris, after a lot of convincing that this is serious, Chris, you need to actually pull off. You can't keep driving like this. And, and you're in the emergency room and you see a sign about uh, about how, it's something about insurance and, and that you're entitled to a, a bill, something like that, Chris. Do you remember? And then while you're in the emergency room you're thinking about your dad's scammers and, and the, and the lines that they feed him and, and you take a picture of it, and you send it to your dad saying, "All of this stuff that you're doing to purportedly pay the hospital and these doctors, it's false, because this is not how hospitals operate." Do you remember that, Chris?

[00:34:11] Chris Mancinelli: Oh yeah, yeah, I do.

[00:34:12] Christie Mancinelli: So...

[00:34:13] Bob: You're in an emergency room, Chris, worried that you might be having a heart attack driven by this craziness and, and yet you're still trying to persuade your father on what's going on.

[00:34:22] Chris Mancinelli: Sounds so...crazy

[00:34:22] Christie Mancinelli: That's right. Yeah, that's, yeah, yeah.

[00:34:26] Bob: It all finally comes to a head in the middle of 2021.

[00:34:31] Chris Mancinelli: So um, around May of 2021, he came to visit us in Pennsylvania. He drove, drove up here. And he, he asked me for a loan, um, a $5000 loan which he said was to pay taxes. But I was, I was shocked, like there's, I, I know he had saved all his life. I knew at one time he had you know probably a million dollars, so to ask me for a $5000 loan was really shocking. And um, so we, we had a good heart-to-heart while he was here. And I came to learn that he had given almost all his money away.

[00:35:06] Bob: His dad who had saved about $1 million during his work life is now asking for a $5000 loan through tears because he has nothing left. Things are so much worse than Chris and Christie had ever imagined, but this moment, as they talked, well it feels like Alfred has finally hit rock bottom. But he hasn't. A surprise windfall which should have provided Alfred with a second chance, instead leads to a tragic final chapter of Alfred's life.

[00:35:42] Bob: That's next week on The Perfect Scam.

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[00:35:53] Bob: If you have been targeted by a scam or fraud, you are not alone. Call the AARP Fraud Watch Network Helpline at 877-908-3360. Their trained fraud specialists can provide you with free support and guidance on what to do next. Our email address at The Perfect Scam is: theperfectscampodcast@aarp.org, and we want to hear from you. If you've been the victim of a scam or you know someone who has, and you'd like us to tell their story, write to us. That address again is: theperfectscampodcast@aarp.org. Thank you to our team of scambusters; Associate Producer, Annalea Embree; Researcher, Becky Dodson; Executive Producer, Julie Getz; and our Audio Engineer and Sound Designer, Julio Gonzalez. Be sure to find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. For AARP's The Perfect Scam, I'm Bob Sullivan.

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