From Puppies to Heartbreak: How a Pet Scam Targets One Man’s Home

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[00:00:02] Bob: This week on The Perfect Scam.

[00:00:04] Gene Shuford: We were out rummaging in the yard, or through the rubble, trying to see if we could save anything, and then people would drive up looking for puppies. I think we had one the day after the house burned down.

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[00:00:26] Bob: Welcome back to The Perfect Scam. I'm your host, Bob Sullivan.

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[00:00:32] Bob: Our exploding world of internet scams has many victims. Some are collateral damage as we'll see in today's story. But what we'll also see is any incredible display of grace in the face of damage and hurt and a willingness for people to help each other that takes this frustrating, sad story and turns it into, well not just one happy ending, but many happy endings. And it all begins with a mysterious visitor who arrives looking for a puppy.

[00:01:09] My name is Gene Shuford. I live in Rutherfordton, North Carolina.

[00:01:13] Bob: Ah, okay.

[00:01:14] Gene Shuford: We run it together sometimes and say Rolfton, so you can do that.

[00:01:18] Bob: Like say that again. I want to hear that again.

[00:01:20] Gene Shuford: You can throw an L in there too ... Rolfton, or Rufton. But people that, if you say Rutherfordton, they say you're not from here.

[00:01:27] Bob: Of course. It's the awkward way I said it, Ruth-er-ford-ton.

[00:01:30] Gene Shuford: I tend do to that, too, but my dad was really, he'd Rolerfordton, he'd really put the Ls in there. But our mayor says Rufton.

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[00:01:40] Bob: Rufton, I hope I got that right, is in the foothills of North Carolina, not too far from Asheville. And into this quiet town, well a steady stream of visitors starts one day. They come from all over. They come to Gene's home looking for the same thing. The first family arrives in April 2023.

[00:02:04] Gene Shuford: They came from Georgia, a nice couple looking for a beagle puppy. I think we might have been out in the yard, and they just came walking up, and parked down here at the bottom of the driveway, and walked up and just politely just said, "We're here to get our puppy." And we said, "What are you talking about?" "The beagle puppy."

[00:02:24] Bob: Unfortunately, Gene doesn't have any puppies for sale. He doesn't even have a dog of his own.

[00:02:32] Bob: It must have been really confusing, right?

[00:02:33] Gene Shuford: It was. We were like, you just felt, that's strange. I thought maybe it was just they got the wrong address or, I don't know.

[00:02:42] Bob: A mistake, sure, yeah.

[00:02:44] Bob: But the couple, they double, triple-checked the address they'd been sent to. They reach out to the seller and pretty quickly they all come to a much darker realization.

[00:02:56] Gene Shuford: I think they had put down about $400 deposit.

[00:03:04] Bob: Do you remember how you got to that conclusion?

[00:03:06] Gene Shuford: Because they had put down money and it happened on the internet.

[00:03:11] Bob: So they talk a bit more and they all agreed the couple should report it to law enforcement.

[00:03:17] Gene Shuford: We just, so you can go tell the sheriff, so report it to the police. I said, "I don't know what else to do."

[00:03:24] Bob: You actually gave them directions to the sheriff's department, right?

[00:03:26] Gene Shuford: I did, I did. I told them exactly where to go.

[00:03:29] Bob: But when they drove away, how did you feel about that? They must have been devastated, right?

[00:03:34] Gene Shuford: We felt bad for them. We thought how sad that they drove, I think it was 5 hours, somewhere around that.

[00:03:40] Bob: Wow.

[00:03:42] Bob: And Gene goes back into his house to have dinner with his wife and daughter, and he's surprised a few hours later when there is a loud knock at the door.

[00:03:53] Gene Shuford: The sheriff came out about, about 9 o'clock. So that, that was a little dis--, disconcerting. You're like, what? And now you feel like you're a criminal and you had to prove otherwise.

[00:04:06] Bob: Yeah. They have, it's dark now, it's nighttime. There's this loud rap at the door. The police never rap quietly. It, it's, no matter how innocent you are, it's a terrible feeling to open the door and see the police outside.

[00:04:18] Gene Shuford: And there was two of them, and of course, flashlights and all that kind of stuff, and they wanted to, I guess just make sure there weren't any puppies here, but we said, no, we don't even have a puppy. We don't even have a dog or a cat.

[00:04:31] Bob: Do you remember anything about what they asked you?

[00:04:34] Gene Shuford: They just said they were following up on a report that there, they had been sent to this address for, to pick up a puppy. And I said, yeah, I know. I sent them to you.

[00:04:44] Bob: But, but by the time they leave you're convinced that you've been cleared of any wrongdoing, right? And you shut the door and...

[00:04:47] Gene Shuford: Yeah.

[00:04:48] Bob: Okay.

[00:04:49] Gene Shuford: Yeah, you feel pretty, okay, that was strange.

[00:04:54] Bob: Gene's daughter, Samantha, is there that night.

[00:04:58] Samantha Shuford: I actually was over at their house eating dinner. I believe it was like a Sunday night and the police came to the door, so I really didn't know what that was about and they had just inquired about, we've heard about the puppies, some like potential scam, and so, and then my dad spoke with the policeman. It's just a small town, so you just don't expect the police coming up.

[00:05:20] Bob: But Samantha says her father takes it in stride.

[00:05:24] Samantha Shuford: I don't know if he was like too upset. So we were just kind of, oh that's odd, really out of the blue, but I don't think we thought too much of it at that point in time.

[00:05:33] Bob: Didn't think too much of it, but then a few weeks later there is another surprise knock at the door, another family looking to pick up their puppy.

[00:05:44] Gene Shuford: It was strange. It was July the 25th because they actually gave me a copy of their contract when they got here, and it shows my address on the top of it. And that poor family, a family with kids, drove all the way from Chicago, Illinois.

[00:06:03] Bob: Oh my god, like 10, 12 hours, something like that? More?

[00:06:07] Gene Shuford: Yeah, it was really bad and but they were so nice, and they didn't seem upset with me, and I told them that they weren't the first, that somebody else had come and they were of course looking for beagles at that time.

[00:06:20] Bob: These second visitors raised Gene's concern level considerably. What's going on? But he's equally concerned for this family that drove all day to pick up a puppy that doesn't exist. So he does what comes naturally, he helps them. He helps them turn the crime into a family vacation.

[00:06:42] Gene Shuford: And I just told them what they ought to do is while they were here, just make this a vacation and at the time Lake Lure was still in, intact, it hadn't had Helene or anything that destroyed it. But I said, "Go to Lake Lure or go somewhere. There's Chimney Rock, there's lots of things to do. Go sightseeing, go hiking." There's a place up above us with a lot of waterfalls. I said, "Just have fun." "We're going to do that. We're going to get us a bed and breakfast and we're going to stay and have some fun." And so they made, they made the most out of it. I was glad.

[00:07:18] Bob: So now you have a sense of just how downhome, charming, graceful Gene and his family are. Well, they would soon come to need all those qualities in spades because one day after that couple from Chicago visits...

[00:07:35] Gene Shuford: Yeah, I was at home, it's about 11 at night and I had a phone call from a neighbor who was up getting ready to walk his dog and he called me and said, "Gene, your house is on fire." And I thought, that's not funny. And I looked out on the carport, or actually on the driveway; I could see some embers on the ground and I walked out and I saw fire shooting out of the attic where there was an attic fan that had overheated or something, and it just caught on fire, and by the time the fire department got here, it was pretty, a pretty big blaze going and they couldn't really, they stopped it to some degree, but then later that night it rekindled and took out a big chunk of the front part of the house. So it was a total loss after that.

[00:08:19] Bob: Wow. But you and your family were safe?

[00:08:23] Gene Shuford: Yeah, my, it was just me and my wife living here then.

[00:08:26] Bob: It was a total loss. They had lived in that house almost 15 years.

[00:08:33] Bob: I have to tell you; I take stories like this personal. There was a fire in the condo that I lived in about four years ago, and the fella next-door to me passed away in the fire, and I couldn't live in my place for three months afterwards, and until you go through something like that, you don't realize how complicated the aftermath is, right? So you were, you had to live somewhere else for how long?

[00:08:50] Gene Shuford: Yep. A year at least.

[00:08:51] Bob: A year.

[00:08:52] Gene Shuford: Almost a whole year. I think it was, maybe 9 months, but really close to a year, or maybe 10 months. And, and we lived in an apartment.

[00:09:00] Bob: And you get these papers, insurance, fights, all that, right?

[00:09:02] Gene Shuford: Yeah. I'm still working. I'm finalizing the personal property as we speak. That's what I've been doing all turning up the wick on that to try to finish it because it's...

[00:09:13] Bob: It just goes on forever.

[00:09:14] Gene Shuford: We're going to run out of time if we don't, yeah.

[00:09:15] Bob: Yeah.

[00:09:16] Gene Shuford: It, you get, get three years to turn in your claim, and but the hard part is going back through the pictures and of the rubble and trying to assess well what is that? Is that something I can turn in? Does it trigger your memory for something else and, and it is hard, and but you'd be surprised hard, but you'd be surprised how many people you meet in conversations that have suffered a fire.

[00:09:38] Bob: It's a, it's an unfortunate club to be in.

[00:09:41] Bob: As I'm sure anyone listening knows, especially anyone who's had a loved one go through a fire, well that aftermath is really complicated. But Gene's aftermath is, well, even more complicated than most.

[00:09:56] Gene Shuford: And the very next day we were out rummaging in the yard, or through the rubble, and I sometimes had stuff out in the yard just thrown out trying to see if we could save anything, and then people would drive up looking for puppies that same day. And I think we had one the day after the house burned down.

[00:10:18] Bob: The day after his house burns down, someone drives up looking to pick up the puppy they had purchased online. And even as the smoldering embers are extinguished, the puppy seekers just keep coming.

[00:10:34] Gene Shuford: The next week I was told by neighbors that people drove by, stopped them, and asked them on the street if they, if we, of course they saw the house was burned, and they said, "Do you know anything about it."

[00:10:47] Bob: Do you know anything about it? No, Gene doesn't know anything. Not yet. What's going on? Why this steady stream of disappointed would be dog buyers? Well, this situation is not all that uncommon. In fact, a couple of years ago we covered the story of a Virginia woman whose family moved into a house that was immediately beset by visitors looking for puppies they’d bought online. A website run by a team of criminals had manipulated those victims into buying pets, and then instructed them to go to a random house to pick up this alleged puppy. In that case, it was this Virginia woman's house, but in this case, that random house is Gene's. The fact that Gene's house is now gone doesn't impact the scam at all.

[00:11:36] Samantha Shuford: So this thing was quite odd throughout the experience with not just having to suffer all the trauma from the house fire, but even throughout that, there were still people who would come and look for puppies while there literally was no house to be found at this location. Um, so yeah, that was, I think just on top of having to deal with starting, I don't want to say your life over, but definitely like a big piece of your home and like what you're about and where you’re from, and so I knew that was pretty difficult I think for my parents, and then adding the puppies on top of it, it's just like an additional nuisance I want to say, not to be too harsh, but it's just an additional stress factor that you have to think about. Okay, and there's people continuing to drive by and look for puppies, so it was quite sad too.

[00:12:23] Bob: In fact, the puppy traffic seems to pick up after the fire.

[00:12:28] Samantha Shuford: Yeah, so in the beginning it was very much just maybe once a month, once every two months. It was fairly infrequent. And then recently I would say really this year in the past two months like over the summer, it was probably 1 to 2 times a week that people were coming, so it just really amped up as time went on.

[00:12:48] Bob: Once or twice a week? That's crazy!

[00:12:49] Samantha Shuford: Yes.

[00:12:50] Bob: And not all the visitors are as friendly as that family from Chicago.

[00:12:55] Gene Shuford: Yeah, while we weren't living here, that neighbor would text me every time someone would either show up or she'd, she said one time somebody came and they were not real nice, but that's the only time I remember it hearing it or even nobody's been really mean to me. They've been, had that look of disbelief on their face and thinking that I'm maybe part of the scam.

[00:13:22] Samantha Shuford: That's when it really became a situation of okay, once you get so many people, I feel like they had been fortunate thus far. Nobody was like they were really upset or really mad at my parents per se, but you only want to risk that chance so often so that's when I feel like it just became a bit much more than we could handle.

[00:13:42] Bob: Were they calling you and saying, "Hey, Samantha, it happened again today." Did you hear from them all the time about this?

[00:13:48] Samantha Shuford: Yes, they would keep me updated. They'd say, oh yeah, another puppy person came today and then they'd tell me where they came from. And that was something that I was always somewhat fascinated with is how far some of the people had come from. And I would say the one that also sticks out, it was like the day before Mother's Day, and I know these, the grandparents had driven all the way from Ohio and I think they had left the night before, and then they showed up like that Saturday morning expecting a puppy for their grandkids. It was going to be like a surprise for their grandkids, and so quite sad that they had to go back with a, the sad news.

[00:14:26] Bob: Meanwhile, remember many of these people are driving up and essentially rubbernecking at a fire scene.

[00:14:34] Bob: And having people drive up and look at the empty distressed property, it feels a little violating, right?

[00:14:42] Samantha Shuford: Yes, definitely. I don't how to put it into words, but it's almost like people are just like looking at you, like almost in, like a circus, or I don't know, it's just like something to look at and, and say, look at them, at everything that's going on. And I know I think I'd heard from my parents and like through the other neighbors that during that time obviously I think people realized, okay, this house is not the house for the puppies, and I know in a few instances they did go knock on some neighbors' doors asking like do they sell puppies and things like that. So it became a little bit of a neighborhood issue.

[00:15:19] Bob: And of course, there's the lingering thought, was the fire set by someone out for revenge? The fire department investigation says no, but it's only natural to wonder.

[00:15:31] Gene Shuford: I even had one friend, a couple, a lady told me that she asked me if she thought, if I thought that the, our fire was possibly retaliation from somebody that was disgruntled. And um, I said, no, because I knew where it started. It was, the investigators finally confirmed it was in the attic, but had it maybe started somewhere else, I might have questioned that.

[00:15:59] Bob: Yeah, how could you not think that? And, and in the meantime, I'm sure you know in this day and age, you're afraid that maybe someday in the future somebody might get angry, even get violent, right?

[00:16:08] Gene Shuford: Yeah, yeah. I don't own a gun, but I thought about possibly getting one just in case things did turn rough. I don't know, you don't, you just don't, you try to be nice and cordial and understanding and compassionate, and you just, but you just got to break through that wall of their initial shock, yeah.

[00:16:31] Bob: Fast-forward 10 months in, the home is rebuilt and the family moves back in, which should have been something to celebrate, but...

[00:16:43] Bob: So I'm just picturing your parents so happy back having dinner at their dinner table and then a knock comes on the door and it's another person looking for a puppy and that must have really destroyed their peace at what should have been a nice day, right?

[00:16:56] Samantha Shuford: Yes, yes. And I think especially because it seems like almost since the new house has been built and made that it has gotten more frequent, like it's no longer the one a month, one every two months, it's, it's slowly but surely just got very frequent, even in the new house.

[00:17:15] Bob: Still, Gene seems to take it all in stride; delivering the bad news to all these visitors. He even sharpens his strategies for talking with them.

[00:17:26] Gene Shuford: The hardest part is when you, if they have kids with them is, is it's like just so disappointing. And, and even for the adults. Sometimes it's the older adults, they just lost a dog or whatever, and...

[00:17:38] Bob: Oh yeah.

[00:17:38] Gene Shuford: ... they're almost inconsolable. At times the think, every one of them thinks I'm joking. That's their first thing. Surely, you're joking. And I'm like, no, I'm not.

[00:17:46] Bob: Oh my god.

[00:17:47] Gene Shuford: Yeah, but...

[00:17:47] Bob: I, I know this is going to sound funny, but I bet at this point you're good at explaining this to people because you've done it so many times.

[00:17:53] Gene Shuford: It's strange, I started keeping a log and I had on there places they could report it like cybercrimes and just FTC, all kind of places. I said I wouldn't even bother with the local police because there's nothing they can do. I said, this is an internet crime. I said it's, I'm not sure, but I would imagine these people are not even in this country, and they, I, if somebody pulled up in my driveway, I just waited for the doorbell to ring. And I went to the door with, a lot of times with the book in my hand. And they'd look at me all wide-eyed, and I'm waiting for them to say, "We're here to pick up the puppy." And I'm like, "I'm sorry to tell you but you've been scammed." And they'll first say, "I hope you're joking." And I said, "No, I'm not.

[00:18:42] Bob: What's crazy about this situation is while Gene and his family are truly victims, they can't exactly fill out a police report because they aren't really victims of a crime.

[00:18:54] Gene Shuford: It's very frustrating, and you feel, you do become a victim yourself in--, indirectly. And you're just always constantly looking over your shoulder like you know what, I think right after Easter or Easter Saturday, that weekend, we had one on the Saturday, we had one on the Monday, we had that whole timeframe was the worst I'd ever seen it. They were like, it seemed every other day they were coming, and I thought, oh no, this is getting way out of control, and mainly because of that new website with all the different breeds; it increased their odds of getting victims.

[00:19:32] Bob: I am so sorry that this happened to you. It's amazing to me, you've said several times, and it's true, right, there's, you're not a traditional victim, there's no crime that you can file a police report about, yet you certainly are a victim in collateral damage of this massive scam. I'm sorry.

[00:19:47] Gene Shuford: You are, and it, it's like you're, you're catching the fallout from it. You're just an indirect victim or however you want to say it.

[00:19:54] Bob: Were you worried about the emotional impact this might have on your parents?

[00:19:57] Samantha Shuford: Yes, definitely. I know, I think it was just they're always have, having to keep worried about is somebody going to come, or are they going to be okay with it, or are they actually going to be somebody who's upset this time? I think that was always the fear is not getting somebody who was extremely upset, and I think obviously you spoke to my dad, he probably tried to, to calm them down if anybody was upset or I think he's a likeable enough guy for people like to believe him, but yeah.

[00:20:28] Bob: Likeable enough that well Gene sometimes does more than just calm people down. I asked him about the most recent puppy visitor and here's what he told me.

[00:20:41] Gene Shuford: Let me see, let me look at my notes. I know I had it down. Um, 8/22, yep, 8/22/25. A real nice couple from Greenville, North Carolina. She had to use the restroom, so I invited her into the house and we talked and they were so friendly and invited us to come down to see them and so, you know they were just...

[00:21:04] Bob: Oh my god. You, you made friends out of this.

[00:21:06] Gene Shuford: That was really strange. Yeah, I've never had that happen until that time. Yeah, actually the, there was another couple from Mountain City, Tennessee...

[00:21:15] Bob: Yeah, in some ways we're all lucky this happened to him and not somebody else. He seems uniquely suited to handle it.

[00:21:19] Samantha Shuford: Yes. Definitely. I know he; he would talk about when people came. He was like, "Oh yeah, I had a good conversation with them. We spoke for an hour," which is like not surprising at all that somebody would come and he would try and make friends with him. And I know several people and he like invited into the house. He's like, "Oh yeah, come take like a tour of the house," knowing it was brand-new and, and stuff like that.

[00:21:39] Bob: Oh my god (laughs).

[00:21:40] Samantha Shuford: Yes.

[00:21:42] Bob: And there is another happy ending from this incident that, well really made me smile.

[00:21:50] Gene Shuford: And then there was another on his way back home he, in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina; he sent me a photo that they had stopped and picked up a dog at a rescue center and a shelter, and so they sent me the picture of his girlfriend with, with the new dog, and so he said, "I guess things worked out the way they should." And I think he put down a little bit of money, but he might be able to get it back.

[00:22:16] Bob: I just want to make sure that I heard that correctly. So they went to you, thought they bought a puppy. There was no puppy, instead they went to a shelter and rescued a dog.

[00:22:23] Gene Shuford: They did. on their way home they stopped by a shelter and got a dog.

[00:22:27] Bob: That's amazing.

[00:22:28] Gene Shuford: And, and they... yep, I thought and I told them, I said, "Rescues make the best dogs anyway." I said, "You did good." I, you know he's probably, I think he told me he was 26 years old, that age.

[00:22:40] Bob: That is, that's such a happy ending.

[00:22:41] Gene Shuford: Yeah, that really was.

[00:22:43] Bob: Still, the criminals used Gene's address for so long that Samantha, well she takes matters into her own hands.

[00:22:52] Samantha Shuford: Yes, so I just decided I wanted to do a little bit more research on this myself, and so my dad had also collected I think just like a book of records of who the people were that had come that were being scammed; phone numbers, contact information, but he also gathered what website did you find this through? And so we were able to track what specific websites were giving out my parents' address. And so the most recent one was like, okay, I'm going to go on this website and basically just pretend that I'm interested in a puppy, obviously giving fake information throughout the experience, and I really wanted to understand, is this actually like a true, believable scam, and then specifically, I wanted to know, at what point in the process are they giving out my parents' address? And so I reached out, put all, put in all my information and then they gave a really quick response. It probably was in; within 10 to 15 minutes they had gotten back to me.

[00:23:54] Bob: Wow.

[00:23:54] Samantha Shuford: And in their first response back, this is what like shocked me, it had my parents' address, and I was like that, talk about violating, like that just feels crazy. It's they're giving out my parents' address within an email to who knows how many people have inquired about this process.

[00:24:10] Bob: Oh.

[00:24:10] Samantha Shuford: That was crazy.

[00:24:11] Bob: And also, that made it a lot more real, I'm guessing, right?

[00:24:14] Samantha Shuford: Yes, it definitely did.

[00:24:16] Bob: Isn't there part of you that just wants to say, "You jerks. Stop bothering my parents!"

[00:24:19] Samantha Shuford: Yes, yes, I thought about it multiple times of just messaging them and being like, look, we know this is a scam. Can you just move on? Can you just literally pick a different address and move on?

[00:24:31] Bob: Samantha's research also turns up a fraud-fighting website devoted to people suffering pet scams, and that turns the tide.

[00:24:42] Samantha Shuford: And so, putting in to do just a little bit more research of okay, what can we do? This has really got to stop. And I think it actually was on Twitter. I found this page and it probably was just like recommended to me through my other searches, um, and it was like one of those scam the scammer channels that records themselves, or maybe highlights their process of them trying to scam the scammer. And I noticed that they had given a shout out, or a mention to a scam support group. And so I went to that Twitter page and I found that they had a website and it was, it was just, yeah, a support group for, I think, all victims of different types of scams. And that's how we got connected to Paul.

[00:25:25] Bob: Paul, that would be Paul Brady. It's a fake name, the name of a very famous Irish musician, by the way. Paul is an internet vigilante, a volunteer who runs a website named Petscams.com. And he tries to shut down scammers and help their victims. Pet scams are still rampant, he tells me.

[00:25:49] Bob: It sounds to me like you're saying, if you search for a puppy online, odds are, many of the sites presented to you, even on that first page are going to be scam websites. Am I saying that right?

[00:25:59] Paul Brady: Normally they will be on first, on the first page. During COVID, I worked with the Better Business Bureau and using the steps that I had from the collection, the, the web scraping that I was doing at the time, I was collecting a lot of data, and 80% of the uh adverts, when you search for a pet, at that time, were scams. And that's 80% on every single page you looked at; they were scam websites.

[00:26:33] Bob: Wow.

[00:26:34] Bob: So Samantha tells her father to reach out to Paul Brady.

[00:26:39] Gene Shuford: Yeah, I had, I was just desperate. And so I sent him an email, I sent him an email and he replied and said, "I'm glad you reached out. Can we have a Zoom call and talk about it?" And we did. Oh yeah, in fact we talked for two, two Zoom sessions. We had, we ran out of time, I guess what 40 minutes a session. We ran out of time and had to con--, reconnect. And but yeah, he explained a lot of how this whole thing works.

[00:27:08] Bob: So Paul, after dealing with victims like Gene for many years, well he's developed his own special countermeasure for these pet scam victims. Paul lives in Europe, but he's happy to help victims in the US.

[00:27:22] Bob: (chuckles) Okay, so what did Paul suggest that you do?

[00:27:25] Samantha Shuford: Yes, so Paul suggested that we make a business account associated with my parents' address. And so that's exactly what we did. And we made the account to where whenever you click on this address in Google Maps, or just search for the address, it will show up, "Puppy Scam - Please Read," and it has additional links and information just saying that this house is known as a location for a puppy scam. And I believe it's linked to Paul's Puppy Scam website as well, so you can see like the legitimacy of the Puppy Scam website.

[00:28:06] Paul Brady: So if your house is being used by a pet scammer as a pickup point, these victims, as a rule, are traveling from the other side of the country. They're traveling a long way away. In order to do that, you're going to use a map, like a GPS uh Google Maps, Waze, so if you put your location as the location of a puppy scam, then when people are setting off to, to visit your location, they see this note, "This is being used in a puppy scam," the scammer has no control over that. You have control over it because it is your address, so the scammer, maybe the first time, maybe the second time, he'll go, okay, we're not going to use that address anymore because we can't control what's on Google Maps. We can't control what's on Waze etc. So I helped um, I helped him to put a, a note on his house on Google Maps so anyone traveling there, it will show pet scams, it would show whatever information he wants it to show, and it basically says do not visit here. If you have been given this address to pick up a puppy, you are being scammed.

[00:29:17] Bob: So this note on Google Maps works like a charm. Anyone who searches for directions to Gene's house learns it's a scam.

[00:29:27] Samantha Shuford: And so far, I think that's been really helpful because actually like in the email that the scammer sent to me, the one that included my parents' address, the URL is a link to a Google Maps address. So it's, as soon as you click on the link, it says, "This is a puppy scam." So I think it's hopefully brought them down or moved on.

[00:29:50] Bob: And at least for the past few weeks or so, it has stopped?

[00:29:53] Samantha Shuford: Yes, so I want to say we did that earlyish August. And so let's say the past two months or so, a month and a half, it, we haven't had anybody, which is quite the drastic difference between one to two a week.

[00:30:08] Bob: That Paul guy knows what he's talking about.

[00:30:10] Samantha Shuford: Yes.

[00:30:12] Bob: Samantha wants to run another little test to really see if the criminals have moved on and where they've moved on to, and she's thinking about paying Paul's help forward.

[00:30:22] Bob: You've already hinted at this, and I think this is such a diabolical part of the crime. You'll never really be sure that it's over.

[00:30:30] Samantha Shuford: I would almost say, it most definitely isn't. And one thing that I'm somewhat tempted to do just to see if we can take down my parents' puppy scam business associated with their account is I think in a few months, once we can say for certain that it's ended, may just message them again pretending to be a different person and whatnot and seeing if they've put in a different address.

[00:30:55] Bob: Ah. That's smart, yeah.

[00:30:57] Samantha Shuford: So yeah, I think yeah, just testing it that way also if they do have a different address, may try and help the next person forward and say, here's how you can stop it if you want the help.

[00:31:08] Bob: All credit to Paul Brady and PetScams.com, Gene says.

[00:31:14] Bob: Wow, okay. So you must be incredibly relieved that it stopped.

[00:31:16] Gene Shuford: Oh, yeah, it's like, like you can breathe again.

[00:31:21] Bob: You don't make any money from this, right?

[00:31:23] Paul Brady: I, unfortunately, do not. I have on, on PetScams.com.

[00:31:29] Bob: We're talking about dozens of dollars a month, right?

[00:31:31] Paul Brady: Um, we're talking about dozens of dollars a month. It, it is down to that.

[00:31:37] Bob: (chuckles) Okay, so just to make it clear, you, you are a volunteer, and you do this out of the goodness of your heart, right?

[00:31:41] Paul Brady: I, I wish I could stop, but I can't stop now because I've been, I've been, I've been doing it and it, I'm, I'm still enjoying it. I have said that - I'm still enjoying it. Um speaking to Gene is, is a really nice thing to happen, and I have instances like that every week where I end up speaking with someone. I'm able to help someone which makes me feel good about myself. And I'm able to stop a lot of people getting scammed that I will never meet. That's good enough for me.

[00:32:14] Bob: The entire episode has been really eye-opening for Samantha.

[00:32:19] Bob: What would you want people to know about your dad and this whole incident as they are listening to this podcast?

[00:32:24] Samantha Shuford: Yeah, I think, I think that luckily my dad has had pretty good spirits throughout. Obviously at some point in time, it's frustrating to have people randomly approach your home and you don't know who they are and you really just don't know anything about them, and I think the one thing is try and treat every situation I guess with a little bit of grace. I think that was needed on both sides. My dad had to be a bit patient with those people coming to us and then they also, I'm sure, were experiencing some news that they didn't expect. And so trying to be patient as well with that. So yeah,  I feel bad, honestly, for both parties involved. Like obviously, you don't want people to lose out on money and especially, I know like animals have a lot of emotional ties and things like that, but my parents have also had to deal with telling this news to several people as well. So it's just difficult on both sides.

[00:33:17] Bob: Boy, having grace dealing with difficult situations, that's saying a mouthful, especially right now, I would think.

[00:33:23] Samantha Shuford: Yes. Definitely.

[00:33:25] Bob: Still, it seems to me well it's pretty unfair that someone like Gene has to label his own home on Google Maps as an address associated with fraud.

[00:33:36] Bob: Doesn't that mean that every time a friend gets directions to his house, they're going to see this message? And that would bother me.

[00:33:44] Paul Brady: And I, I, I think for Gene and you, you have spoken with him, I think for Gene if, if someone arrives at the house and says, what is this? Gene's got a good story to tell.

[00:33:53] Bob: (laughs) Yes.

[00:33:54] Paul Brady: And I, I, I think that's, that's, that's what's keeping it on for a while.

[00:33:57] Bob: Yeah, yeah, sure, sure. I, I, and I, he's definitely got the right spirit about it, but, but nevertheless, uh to me this just, well one of the things about the scam universe that fascinates me is the, the collateral damage is wider than anyone ever thinks, right? So Gene can't fill out a police report. He's not a victim of a crime so to speak, but as of today on Google Maps it says his house is a den of crime, and that just seems unfair to me.

[00:34:26] Paul Brady: I agree with you.

[00:34:28] Bob: Since Paul was first on The Perfect Scam in 2021, it's important to note pet scams have changed a lot. So-called non-delivery scams are just the tip of the iceberg now. Tack on elements of the scam make it far more lucrative for the criminals.

[00:34:44] Bob: The, the fundamental crime here is often just send money for a puppy. Okay, the puppy's on the way or come to my house and pick up the puppy, and there's no puppy, right?

[00:34:55] Paul Brady: Fundamentally, yes. I will actually say that, that they, they don't do that anymore because there's so much more chance to earn money by the shipping. Things have changed a lot. The players involved have changed, so the majority of pet scams were originating from Cameroon in West Africa. Um, the Cameroonian scammers are now branching out into other types of scam, still non-delivery, but they're not in pet scams as much because the market isn't there, um, the market that existed during uh COVID lockdown has mostly disappeared now. Uh, now we have Indian scammers that they've taken up the mantle, so they're opening huge amounts of uh pet scam websites now. And the Cameroonian scammers, most of them are moving onto uh other type of, of, of e-commerce websites to scam people.

[00:35:57] Bob: So the Indian scammers are kind of picking up the scraps of the puppy scam, essentially?

[00:36:01] Paul Brady: They're, the Indian scammers are doing it on a larger scale, so the, the basic scam, the framework of it is a scammer will advertise an item. They might build a website or they will do it on Facebook. The victim will say, "Yes, it's a really good price, you know, it sounds too good to be true. Yes, I would like to buy this." The scammer will, may speak on the phone, but will never do a video call. They will then say, "That's not a problem. I will ship it to you," uh, whatever this item is. It's normally a high value item. The scammer will then introduce a website, an online company which does shipping. That will be a scam as well. The shipping website will be built by the scammer, and it will charge you multiple fees before you can get whichever item you were intending on buying. The item doesn't exist. It is photographs stolen from Instagram, etc., um, and the scammer will keep going until you realize it's a scam. So where, in some cases, where someone is buying a puppy for free, what they think is a puppy, it's actually stolen Instagram photographs, they uh might be uh getting it for free to adopt -- adopt, don't shop, does not work in this case. Um, the scammer will say, all you need to do is pay for shipping, oh, but now you need to pay for a new air conditioned crate, now you need to pay for vaccines, now you need to pay for tariffs into your um, city, now you need to pay for x, y, and z until you go, I've paid too much money. So that's how you hear stories about how a free puppy costs $20,000. And I've collected 1500 websites that are being advertised on Google. So they're, when you do a search for a, I'm looking for a, a Dachshund pup, I'm looking for a Rottweiler pup, the advert that appears is actually a paid advert by a scammer, um, a lot of the time, it's not all the time, but a lot of the time it is. So we collected all this data and uh, I think it's something like 4% of these scammers come from India, but 14, 15% almost of the websites were by individual, one individual Indian group, so they've made just over 800 websites that we found so far.

[00:38:46] Bob: Wow, and all of them, the ones you found, you found because they were indexed on Google, right?

[00:38:51] Paul Brady: So we have different programs that seek out these scam websites. There are newly registered domains. They have certain fingerprints about them. Um, I believe I said 1500 websites. It was 5000 websites uh that we've had in the past year that are being advertised on Google. So the, the scammer is building two or three a day. And this one particular scammer, he's part of a group, and they've taken up the mantle now of pet scams, of this particular type of pet scam, this particular, if you like, modality.

[00:39:28] Bob: So, but it sounds like you've narrowed it down to one group and one person within one group who's responsible for a lot of this?

[00:39:34] Paul Brady: I can name them.

[00:39:36] Bob: And what happens when you share that information with local authorities?

[00:39:39] Paul Brady: The criminals are in India. Um, they are advertising the, all these websites. They're also registering them. It is extremely difficult to find any law enforcement that will be interested in what is individually a $800, $1500 loss. Cumulatively it is a, a large loss; the, the scammers are making a lot of profit. But on a, a victim, per victim basis, it is not relatively a lot of money even though it can destroy some people's lives. There are much bigger scams out there, um, such as cryptocurrency scams, etc. And that, rightly or wrongly, that is what the, the authorities will target.

[00:40:31] Bob: So in some ways this criminal has found a sweet spot of a crime that's small enough that the authorities don't care, but large enough that it's very profitable en masse, right?

[00:40:40] Paul Brady: The scammers in the 20 years that I've been doing this, the scammers are always looking for that sweet spot, uh, with the 419 scams, the uh Nigerian Prince scams. They would be asking for amounts that was below the threshold for Western Union to investigate so they'd be asking for $4000 and another $4000 and another $4000 instead of asking for $12,000 in one go, which means that Western Union would um, investigate. So they're good at what they do. They, they look for these sweet spots and then exploit them.

[00:41:18] Bob: So let me play dumb here. It's one of my favorite characters to play. Um, there's an American searching for a puppy and Google presents them with a bunch of websites that were registered and hosted, I guess, in Cameroon. Why would that ever make sense to Google?

[00:41:37] Paul Brady: Let me do your, your playing dumb justice. So the, the way that we find out the country is not where the domain is registered or where it's hosted. So if I'm in Ireland, and if I want to have a domain, I can register it with an American company and host it in America, but if I want to advertise it with Google AdWords, then I need to have an account with Google AdWords. I need to say which country I live in, and I need to use my name and put in a, I need to confirm my name as well. I need to have a passport. Um, I believe that they're using stolen passports or they are um, using friends or family passports. In one case, um, one of our scammers is using everyone in his family. Once one account gets shut down another one, um, is opened up. That information is public, so Google, in their transparency platform, they allow you to see the name and the country that the person advertising is from. It is, if you like, it's an open secret. If there's three little dots on the side of the ad, and if you click on those three dots, it will say more about the advertiser. It will show what other websites that advertiser is advertising. So basically, I have a script that goes through 2½ thousand of these advertisers every day to see if there's anything new.

[00:43:11] Bob: But I'm pretty much never going to want to buy a puppy from Cameroon. Why would Google even present me with ads from these companies are that aren't even hiding where they're from in that way?

[00:43:22] Paul Brady: I have tried to speak with Google about that, and I can't answer that question. I definitely think that's something that some of the bigger platforms like Google can do is if I'm advertising a locksmith in the US, if I'm advertising puppies for sale, or almost anything for sale, but I'm actually from an African country, or a country on the other side of the world, and if my account is less than a year old, then there should be definitely a red flag put on it, um, that it is a, possibly a scam. There should be more controls and checks on that. The consumer will adjust to the ad, so they won't know unless they know where to look. They won't know who the advertiser is, where the advertiser is claiming to be, and that is important because we have a lot of advertisers as well claiming to be in the United States, but they're not in the United States and we have ways of checking on that as well.

[00:44:31] Bob: So, always research the websites you visit online, even if they come highly recommended by a search engine like Google. But there are many, many other steps that pet buyers can take to protect themselves.

[00:44:43] Paul Brady: First of all I would say, ignore adopt, don't shop. It is a really good idea to adopt a pet instead of um, buying from a breeder. It is ridiculously rewarding; I can tell you from personal experience. But in terms of being scammed, um, scammers will build websites for adopting. Um, so you don't buy the pet, you adopt a pet. And you just pay the shipping followed by vaccines, followed by air crate, followed by second flight because they missed the first one, followed... until you realize that you have been scammed. The best advice that I can give, and it is not perfect but it is the best that I can give, is have a video call with the breeder, the puppy that you want to buy, and the puppy's mother. That will show you at least that the person you're speaking to does have the puppy that you saw on the picture. Is the puppy still with the mother? It's, it's, this is just a, a feel-good thing. It isn't a backyard breeder where they've got 50 or 60 um, different breeding dogs, etc. But it is still um, my fingers are crossed, it's still relatively hard to use AI video to fake the puppy that you were looking at, photo you were looking at with a person. You can ask them to, you know, wave at you, and just count their fingers when they're waving because AI video still doesn't get fingers right. But definitely, simply a video call with the, the breeder and the puppy. If they refuse to do that, which there's no reason why a breeder would refuse, you can easily find a scammer by saying, "I want to have a video call with you." They'll go, "No I can't, my phone is broken, uh, I don't have reception here. I don't have a phone. We don't do that," 100,000 different reasons for why they can't have a video call with you when it's as simple as, as picking up a, a cellphone.

[00:46:44] Bob: And you mean specifically a video call, not a video, right?

[00:46:47] Paul Brady: It has to be a video call. I, I, I have a, a folder full of videos sent by scammers to victims, and they'll do a voiceover, and so it'll just show the puppy running around the floor. It is very possibly that the puppy that you're looking at in the photographs, 'cause they have stolen them all from the same place, and they'll do a, a voiceover for the video. Then they will send you that video. That's not a video call. You're not looking at the person live. It has worked; it works on some people because they want the puppy so much. You have to do a video call in terms of does this person have the puppy? They need to have the puppy with them. In terms of um, is the puppy well looked after where it is now? I would ask that the mother is involved in the, the video call. If it is a very unprofessional video, perfect. The more unprofessional the better. If it's really slick, um, I, I'd be a bit suspicious, but if it is, like an imperfect video, you see the person's face, and get them to wave at you. Look at the puppy. Ask some questions about the puppy. That will give you a much better idea.

[00:47:58] Bob: That will give you a much better idea. And scam fighters like Paul Brady make the world a much better place.

[00:48:07] Bob: Well Gene has very nice things to say about you, so I hope you, you uh, you feel the love from somebody like Gene, and let me just say on behalf of the universe, that we are in your debt and deeply feel a lot of gratitude for the work that you do. So thank you.

[00:48:23] Paul Brady: I won't lie. I get a lot of pleasure out it as well.

[00:48:28] Bob: It's nice when the good guys win once in a while. For The Perfect Scam, I'm Bob Sullivan.

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[00:48:42] Bob: If you have been targeted by a scam or fraud, you're not alone. Call the AARP Fraud Watch Network Helpline at 877-908-3360. Their trained fraud specialists can provide you with free support and guidance on what to do next. To learn more about the Fraud Watch Network volunteers and the fraud survivors they've helped, check out the new video series, Fraud Wars, on AARP's YouTube channel. Our email address at The Perfect Scam is: theperfectscampodcast@aarp.org, and we want to hear from you. If you've been the victim of a scam or you know someone who has, and you'd like us to tell their story, write to us. That address again is: theperfectscampodcast@aarp.org. Thank you to our team of scambusters; Associate Producer, Annalea Embree; Researcher, Becky Dodson; Executive Producer, Julie Getz; and our Audio Engineer and Sound Designer, Julio Gonzalez. Be sure to find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. For AARP's The Perfect Scam, I'm Bob Sullivan.

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