We’ll be back with new episodes of The Perfect Scam on July 27. In the meantime, enjoy this bonus episode featuring the producers of the podcast showing off their fraud-busting skills in a pop quiz. And don’t forget to nominate The Perfect Scam for The People’s Choice Podcast Awards. Nominations end on July 31.
[00:00:01] Will: Hi everyone, this is Will Johnson, your host for AARP's The Perfect Scam Podcast. While you are waiting for next season to launch that's coming up very soon, July 27th, uh we have a special, a very special bonus episode for you here today, and uh we're going to get to that. We have producers Brook and Julie in the studio to help us out. Hi, Brook.
[00:00:19] Brook: Hey, how are you?
[00:00:21] Will: I'm great. Julie, how are you?
[00:00:22] Julie: I'm well, thank you.
[00:00:23] Will: Julie, you were featured actually on one of our shows.
[00:00:26] Julie: I was.
[00:00:26] Will: The pizza person, and I'm going to get back to that. Before we have a very special podcast episode with Brook and Julie, and a pop quiz that you can all take out there yourself in listener land, listeners, we have a very special invitation and request for you as our, our very favorite fans and listeners. If you love our show and you would like to nominate us for the 13th Annual Podcast Awards, you can go to PodcastAwards.com throughout July you can nominate The Perfect Scam for the People's Choice Podcast Award. Alright, with that aside, we would now like to jump into today's very special episode. We have a pop quiz for Julie and Brook, our esteemed producers and The Perfect Scam staff, and uh who would like to go first? We're going to ask you some, some uh some scam questions. They'll go from uh easy-ish to hard-ish. And uh, and don't feel bad if you can't get them because they're, they might not be easy. Brook, do you want to go first?
[00:01:21] Brook: Yeah, I'll go first.
[00:01:22] Will: You look ready.
[00:01:22] Brook: I'm probably going to get them wrong, but let's go.
[00:01:24] Will: And you have a little bit of a cold, but... you're allowed to get it, get it wrong.
[00:01:28] Brook: Okay.
[00:01:28] Will: We'll just all shame you.
[00:01:29] Brook: And it's not multiple choice.
[00:01:30] Will: It's not multiple choice, uh, well some, in some questions you'll have one, you'll have two answers, it's, you have a 50-50 chance of getting it right or wrong. Here's your first question: drumroll, do you have drums? Thank you. Uh, Brook, what's safer to use in general across the board, debit card or credit card?
[00:01:46] Brook: Credit card. I know that one.
[00:01:50] Will: You've really been listening.
[00:01:50] Brook: Yeah.
[00:01:52] Will: Brook, you are correct, and do you know why that is? Well,...
[00:01:54] Brook: Oh, I do know why.
[00:01:56] Will: Go ahead, go ahead.
[00:01:56] Brook: So, um, you're liable for less money if your credit card, like if there's fraudulent charges on your credit card whereas your debit card, you're, you may be liable for the whole amount. And I know this from personal experience.
[00:02:11] Will: Okay. I mean you're right, except I don't know if I like the, the way you said it.
[00:02:16] Brook: Okay. Alright. Okay, fix it then.
[00:02:17] Will: I think in general, maybe that's the way to say it, no, you've, so 100% uh the, the credit card companies are more likely to resolve disputes, as we've learned, okay. From Season 1 of The Perfect Scam. Alright, Julie. So uh Brook nailed the first one, I'm not sure if she's been studying, um, you weren't supposed to study, right?
[00:02:35] Brook: No, I didn't study.
[00:01:52] Will: Okay. Julie, you ready?
[00:02:38] Julie: I'm ready.
[00:02:38] Will: You're nervous.
[00:02:38] Julie: I'm nervous. Ooh.
[00:02:41] Will: Can I ask a really easy one?
[00:02:42] Julie: Oh yes, please.
[00:02:43] Will: Julie, as we learned in Season 1, uh every Friday night you and your family order pizza from the local pizza joint. Is that every Friday pretty much?
[00:02:51] Julie: Pretty much.
[00:02:52] Will: I like that. Just to know what you're going to do.
[00:02:55] Julie: By the end of the week I'm so tired, I just want easy.
[00:02:57] Will: The gal on the phone typically a young lady will ask you for your credit card and your name, and then she asks for the 3-digit code on the back. Is that okay?
[00:03:07] Julie: No. It is not okay. And Frank told me that.
[00:01:52] Will: Right, so and so do you ever need to give that 3-digit code to the pizza person or in most situations?
[00:03:18] Julie: Well, I feel like it's, it's, people are always asking us for the 3-digit code on the back.
[00:03:22] Will: Right.
[00:03:23] Julie: Right? Um, actually but something very interesting happened recently. I tried to order some sushi over the phone, from a sushi place, and uh, I tried to give them my credit card information, and there for pickup, and they said no, they won't accept credit card information over the phone anymore. You have to go in now.
[00:03:40] Brook: Oh, that's smart.
[00:03:41] Julie: Because... exactly, right?
[00:03:42] Will: Protects them and you maybe.
[00:03:44] Julie: Yeah, and now with all the fraud activity that's going on, people stealing credit cards.
[00:03:47] Will: So to order a pizza though, as we learned from Frank, you don't have to give the 3-digit code, they shouldn't be asking for it, in fact.
[00:03:52] Julie: That's correct. They shouldn't be asking for it, and I think it stems from, like a manager who thought that that was a good idea, and then teaches his staff that, and the staff don't really know, don't really know, I mean not, don't really know, um, any better.
[00:04:04] Will: Yeah, we're not blaming the, right, right, but so have you had a situation now where you've called back and they've asked for it and you had to say no, I don't need to give it.
[00:04:10] Julie: I actually, from Frank, now I go with cash. I order the pizza and I and pick it up and I, and I uh, yeah, I pay cash.
[00:04:16] Will: Yeah, you're not getting, right, yeah, so you have to have some cash. Alright. Great, so you guys are 1 for 1 each of you. You're 100%. Brook, your next question, it's going to get, it's getting harder, I think. Frank has a mantra for what to do when a potential scammer calls; they're urgent, they say you've got to do something right now.
[00:04:33] Brook: Ooh, I already now.
[00:04:35] Julie: Gosh.
[00:04:36] Brook: Stop and verify.
[00:04:37] Will: Wow.
[00:04:37] Julie: Wow!
[00:04:39] Brook: I listened to the whole thing.
[00:04:41] Will: You would have gotten that, you would have gotten that, Julie.
[00:04:42] Julie: Maybe.
[00:04:43] Brook: I'm here every time we record. I listen to Frank...
[00:04:46] Will: I never know, you're in the other room, I figured you could be like, you know...
[00:04:49] Brook: Just hanging out...
[00:04:49] Will: Watching movies or something.
[00:04:51] Brook: Yeah.
[00:04:51] Will: Alright, so Brook, amazing work. Brook knows that stop and verify.
[00:04:55] Brook: Yes, and I've told other people this now. Stop and verify. So you...
[00:04:59] Will: So somebody calls you, you say, you've got to do this right now.
[00:05:00] Brook: Yes, so you stop, you independently look up say if they say they're from Apple, you independently look up Apple's email address and number and you call them and verify that the information that the person over the phone told you is correct.
[00:05:15] Will: Boom. Done. A bank calls, hey we've got a problem, you need to, can you tell us, you know give us some information. Hey, I don't need to talk to you, or you can say it nicely, hey, let me not talk to you right now, I'm going to, I'm going to call the bank. And you look up the number of the bank and you call. Alright.
[00:05:27] Brook: Yeah.
[00:05:28] Will: Alright, uh Brook, you're 2 for 3 now. It's amazing.
[00:05:32] Julie: Oh gosh, she's tough.
[00:05:33] Will: Julie, question number two. This is a little sneaky so I apologize in advance. Some, you know, you may know this; how can you tell if a website URL is secure? So if you were just to look at the URL, so you go to a website, like let me see right now, I'm on a website here for uh, interestingly the PodcastAwards.com where people can go nominate The Perfect Scam for the People's Choice Awards, and it reads https:... so I've given you a little hint there. It reads "https, not http."
[00:06:04] Julie: Correct. So there has to be an s.
[00:06:06] Will: Julie, yes.
[00:06:07] Julie: Yes.
[00:06:08] Brook: Ding-ding-ding.
[00:06:09] Will: Alright. We'll give it to her. Anyway, look for the "s" at least, and I'm sure people can maybe hack that, but in general, that's something to look out for. If you're on just an http, danger.
[00:06:21] Julie: Good, good question though. Good.
[00:06:23] Will: Thank you. Thank you. Uh, Brook, are you ready for your third and final question? We may have a bonus question for you if it's tied up.
[00:06:28] Will: Okay. Brook, what is the safest way to post a photo online? That's a little confusing. What is the best way to take a photo of yourself, let's say, and then put it on Facebook? What should that photo, how should you be positioned in that photo?
[00:06:43] Brook: Oh, okay, so I would say that it...
[00:06:45] Will: I gave her a lot of extra information.
[00:06:46] Brook: It shouldn't be sort of like... it used... I don't know how to explain this. You shouldn't be like face forward. It shouldn't be like a passport photo. You shouldn't be like face forward, eyes forward. You should be kind of like not directly into the camera, maybe more than you in the picture a little bit further back, is that what we're going for?
[00:07:09] Will: I'm not giving her any clues with my face.
[00:07:11] Julie: Can I build? Can I build on that response?
[00:07:14] Will: Yes.
[00:07:14] Julie: Um, it should be more of a side profile.
[00:07:17] Will: Thank you, Julie.
[00:07:18] Brook: Yes. That's what I was saying, right?
[00:07:19] Will: You did kind of say that, the whole, I mean sure you could say like always be like in the shadows or like wear a disguise. Wear a mustache.
[00:07:26] Brook: Like cheated not to the front was what I was trying to say. Yeah.
[00:07:31] Will: Glasses.
[00:07:32] Brook: Like not your passport folder. Not, not...
[00:07:34] Julie: I think that was, I think that still works.
[00:07:36] Will: Let's see how you do on your third, and then if it's, I mean that wasn't perfect, but it...
[00:07:41] Brook: Okay, I got like half right?
[00:07:43] Will: No, no, I think you got it. I think we'll probably give it to you. You did, you did well. Just not like a passport was a good answer, and then Julie did a nice job of clarifying. Julie, for your third and final question, name three tactics scammers use to expose vulnerability. Again, the answer's probably easier than you think. Three ways in which scammers can identify, can, three ways in which people are vulnerable. Maybe that's another way to put it. Um, and scammers use different ways of freaking you out on the phone, right? And sometimes it might be (blank). Or sometimes it might be (blank). Name two of the three. I'm going to give this to you.
[00:08:20] Julie: Like, that's a hard question. Is it, are you asking what do scammers prey on? What do they hope, like people that are lonely, people that are older, people that um...
[00:08:33] Will: Yes, yes.
[00:08:33] Julie: Okay. If people, I mean we're learning this season people that uh regularly check their mail, their postal mail and send checks in. They're hoping, they're preying on um, people who...
[00:08:44] Will: And so what would a scammer do to prey on someone who might be lonely and need to connect?
[00:08:51] Julie: They would try and establish a personal relationship with them. They would try and...
[00:08:58] Will: Yeah, they'd connect with them.
[00:08:59] Julie: Um-hm, they'd connect with them, exactly. And they'll try and put them underneath their ether.
[00:09:02] Will: Right. Right, okay, so that's a good answer. Then name one more thing that somebody might do in a very different scenario to...
[00:09:11] Julie: Threaten.
[00:09:12] Will: Perfect.
[00:09:12] Julie: Threatened.
[00:09:13] Will: Done.
[00:09:13] Julie: Scare. Fear.
[00:09:14] Will: Fear. Fear, fear.
[00:09:14] Julie: Oh my gosh, do they prey on fear.
[00:09:16] Will: Right?
[00:09:17] Julie: Yes.
[00:09:17] Will: Alright, so fear, a fear tactic is one, like hey, if you don't do this something bad's going to happen. Another one, connect with people, uh make them feel like they're, they're not so disconnected from everything and everybody. Um, and then there's other ways, but two out of three, great Alright, so we're kind of tied up. I think I have...
[00:09:36] Julie: Do we have a bonus round?
[00:09:37] Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:09:37] Julie: Okay, cool.
[00:09:39] Will: Brook.
[00:09:40] Brook: Okay.
[00:09:41] Will: Final question in the bonus round. Who is most vulnerable when it comes to identify theft, and I don't have any research to back this up right now, but the, in general from my conversations with uh Frank Abagnale our, AARP's Fraud Watch Network Ambassador, what vulnerable segment of the population, what segment of the population is very vulnerable to identity theft and I'll give you a little hint...
[00:10:05] Brook: Oh, like, like babies, like kids.
[00:10:07] Will: Done. You got it.
[00:10:08] Brook: Because they haven't established their identity online or credit wise yet.
[00:10:12] Will: Right, so your children, uh are very vulnerable because scammers can go out and start, they can, they can steal their identity and start building up credit, and then use that against them down the road.
[00:10:26] Julie: Hmm, it's so scary.
[00:10:28] Will: They're very vulnerable.
[00:10:29] Brook: Yes.
[00:10:30] Will: So people who don't even have credit yet.
[00:10:32] Julie: Poor babies.
[00:10:33] Will: Right, so look out for your children. That's not to say your grandparents and yourself and everybody else in the world is not vulnerable, but that is a vulnerable segment. Julie, so Brook is 4 for 4. She got the bonus question. Um, oh, this is too easy, but I'm going to do it, whatever, we've got to get...
[00:10:49] Julie: Give me a hard one.
[00:10:49] Will: We've got to get out of here.
[00:10:50] Julie: Okay. Wrap it up, okay, cool. Wait, are there any prizes?
[00:10:55] Will: Yes.
[00:10:56] Brook: What?
[00:10:57] Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:10:58] Julie: Nice.
[00:10:58] Will: But not if you both win.
[00:11:00] Julie: Oh.
[00:11:02] Will: Julie, uh, I get a call from my bank and it says my bank on the phone you know instead of just a phone number, it says, you know, uh Bank of whatever. Is there any reason to believe that that, that that phone number calling and that identity for that bank could not be real, like can that be messed with?
[00:11:23] Julie: Absolutely.
[00:11:24] Will: Yeah, that's too easy.
[00:11:25] Julie: Absolutely. Absolutely. Can't trust anyone right?
[00:11:29] Will: So right, so people all, but this is an important point and not everyone knows and you got it, and maybe it was easy, but some, a lot of people will say, look, it said you know, the name of my bank. That doesn't matter at all. Right, so phone numbers, it doesn't matter what number it is. It doesn't matter what it says, those can be manipulated, it's easy, they go buy these numbers, they can manipulate all of that. Don't trust the caller ID.
[00:11:51] Julie: Yeah, you know what always throws me for a loop is the, when I'm getting calls on my cell phone from the same area code.
[00:11:57] Brook: Yeah.
[00:11:57] Julie: Right? And I immediately think, oh, it's DC, it's gotta be someone I know. Maybe my doctor, maybe my bank, and uh I answer it and then it's, of course, a scam call. So, don't ever answer phone calls from phone numbers you don't really know.
[00:12:10] Will: And you know something else I've learned this season that I found to be really helpful was that the information that you know, people talk a lot about well, I mess with the scammers and obviously you don't want to do that at all, really. At all. Um, but the longer you stay on with somebody, so sometimes people are like, well I ask them questions or I kind of led them on a little bit. The longer you stay on, the more likely you are to get another call because they say oh this person was engaged with our call. They asked questions, we had them on a little bit.
[00:12:35] Julie: That's correct. Never engage, you're not supposed to.
[00:12:37] Will: No, no.
[00:12:38] Julie: No, no.
[00:12:39] Will: They're criminals and you don't need to be talking to them, you can just hang up.
[00:12:41] Julie: Yeah.
[00:12:42] Will: Or politely, you know Frank, I think, he's a nice gentleman when he makes the point, he’ll say, no thanks, and verify.
[00:12:48] Julie: Yeah.
[00:12:49] Will: So much information. You guys did really well, um, congratulations and because it was a tie, there's no prize other than...
[00:13:00] Will: Dinner with Frank.
[00:13:01] Julie: Dinner with Frank?!
[00:13:03] Will: He's not here but, alright, so uh Brook and Julie, the behind-the-scenes power and brains behind the show, I'm your host, Will Johnson, and just one more reminder that we will be back on July 27th with a brand new season. Twelve new episodes, twelve and counting at this point. We've got amazing stories we're going to tell you about; stories that will knock your socks off and blow your mind. In the meantime, go to PodcastAwards.com, nominate The Perfect Scam for the People's Choice Podcast Award. Did I get that right?
[00:13:31] Julie: You sure did.
[00:13:31] Brook: Yes.
[00:12:53] Will: And that's all July, so starting in July.
[00:13:33] Julie: July 1st to the 31st, the nomination period is open and yeah, it'll be great if people could write in and vote.
[00:13:40] Will: Alright, stay tuned folks and come back July 27th. We'll be back with a brand new season.
END OF TRANSCRIPT
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