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SENIORS WITH CHILDREN--GRANDCHILDREN
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Government & Elections
SENIORS WITH CHILDREN--GRANDCHILDREN
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Today's young people are being drafted into an economic war that they don't understand.&nbsp; &nbsp;It's a slowly waged, diabolical war that substitutes debt and underemployment for missing limbs and
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Forums » Politics & Society » Government & Elections » SENIORS WITH CHILDREN--GRANDCHILDREN

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Forums  »  Politics & Society  »  Government & Elections  »  SENIORS WITH CHILDREN--GRANDCHILDREN

SENIORS WITH CHILDREN--GRANDCHILDREN

posted at August 2, 2012 12:20 PM EDT
Posts: 12532
First: February 29, 2008
Last: May 17, 2013
Today's young people are being drafted into an economic war that they don't understand.   It's a slowly waged, diabolical war that substitutes debt and underemployment for missing limbs and psychological disorders. The soldiers are college-age men and women who can't find jobs or pay tuition, and who are seduced into submission by the promise of eventual rewards. The Vietnamese jungle has turned into Wall Street.

For those of us who weren't particularly good activists in the 60s, age has widened our perspective, and the lack of opportunities for our children has given us a second chance to protest, to help make it clear how the leaders of my generation have abandoned the people they no longer need.

Young America, here's why you should be angry:

1. The Great WEALTH Transfer

-- 18- to 35-year-olds: Your median net worth has dropped 68% since 1984. It's now less than $4,000.

-- The Richest 1%: They tripled their share of income between 1980 and 2006, then took 93% of all the new income in the first year after the 2008 recession. Their median net worth is now over $5,000,000.

2. The Lack of JOBS: No one's hiring, so you have to "create your own job."

This from Michael Barone of the Washington Examiner: "The good news is that information technology provides the iPod/Facebook generation with the means to find work and create careers that build on their own personal talents and interests...creating your own career will produce a stronger sense of satisfaction and fulfillment."

Sounds easy, doesn't it? Just grab your iPhone, open up Facebook, and create your own job. Become an entrepreneur, just like the richest Americans. Except that the richest Americans aren't entrepreneurs. Based on U.S. tax return data, only 3% of the wealthiest 130,000 Americans are entrepreneurs. Most are in management or finance.

As your parents and mentors, we told you to stay in school and work hard and everything would be fine. But you don't have jobs. Over half of college graduates were jobless or underemployed in 2011. More than 350,000 Americans with advanced degrees were receiving food stamps or some other form of public assistance.

If you do have a job, it's probably not paying much. Salaries for new graduates dropped 10% just in the last year. Worse yet, most of you are dealing with college loan debt, which averages $24,000, and with the reality of zero net worth for over a third of you.

As wages are hitting an all-time low, corporate profits are hitting an all-time high. But the corporations that have built their profits on American innovation and labor are telling you they don't need you anymore. Apple -- much admired for its slick products -- shows little respect for anyone below upper management. With 47,000 employees, about 1/10 the number employed by IBM, Apple makes a profit of $420,000 per employee. Yet most Apple store workers make about $12 per hour.

And your representatives in Washington are no help. In October, 2011 Senate Republicans killed a proposed $447 billion jobs bill that would have added about two million jobs to the economy. Nearly two-thirds of the American public had supported the bill.

3. The Portrayal of EDUCATION as a "lifetime investment"

Yes, it's a lifetime investment, for the holder of your student loans.

As corporate profits and CEO salaries and incomes of the 1% have surged over the past ten years, education financing declined by 24 percent, and tuition at state schools increased 72 percent. Since 1985, while consumer prices have approximately doubled, tuition has risen almost 600%.

Total state education cuts for fiscal 2012 were $12.7 billion. A study by Citizens for Tax Justice noted that 265 of our nation's largest companies avoided about the same amount in state taxes each year from 2008 to 2010.

So your massive tuition bills are paid for with mounting student debt, which has more than tripled in the past ten years. Here again my own generation has deceived you. Our once-idealistic anti-war activists now excel at flashy marketing and sloganeering, with admissions pitches of "affordability" and "lifetime investment," and carefully avoided references to costs and debts and contracts.

To make up for lost revenue, cutbacks continue and educational opportunities disappear. State colleges are eliminating expensive-to-run engineering and computer science departments. Arizona doubled college tuition in four years. California K-12 schools have one counselor for every 800 students. Ohio's Governor Kasich suggested rationing college majors among state schools. Illinois cut 2012 educational funding by a greater percentage than any other state; not to be outdone, Pennsylvania's Governor Corbett tried to cut higher education funding by half, and New Hampshire DID cut university funding by half. Florida's college tuition is up 15% in a year, Nevada's is up 13%, Tennessee's about 10%, Washington's 24% over two years.

Hell No, We Won't Go Into Servitude

College graduates, you shouldn't be working for $12 an hour. The computer and networking technologies that gave life to companies like Apple and Google grew out of 50 years of public research. It was an accomplishment of society, not of a few well-positioned individuals. You, the descendants of industry pioneers, and the potential creators of even greater technologies, deserve at the very least a decent-paying job.

Your anti-war protest, if a time-weathered opinion matters, would include a flood of job demands at the offices of U.S. and state senators and representatives. In person and online. You are part of the fastest and most sophisticated means of communication ever devised. You have the power to make demands.

But first you have to get mad.

article for reprint from NationofChange.org

Re: SENIORS WITH CHILDREN--GRANDCHILDREN

posted at August 2, 2012 6:39 PM EDT
Posts: 471
First: December 21, 2011
Last: May 20, 2013
The unemployment rate among college graduates that get useful degrees is <4%. You don't have to rack up a $50,000 loan by going to some fancy private college and majoring in some useless subject, that there is no market for. A rational person would select something that is useful, go to a junior or community college, then transfer credits to a public 4 year college. My former supervisor's son and daughter recently graduated SUNY  with engineering degrees. They were offered dozens of jobs. When I check my linked in, I find many jobs that I can qualify for if I wanted. Most of those that don't have jobs after getting degrees are unemployed because they chose to major in some useless subject. I don't see where responsible people should be made to subsidise irresponsible people. 
 Response to SENIORS WITH CHILDREN--GRANDCHILDREN:
Today's young people are being drafted into an economic war that they don't understand.   It's a slowly waged, diabolical war that substitutes debt and underemployment for missing limbs and psychological disorders. The soldiers are college-age men and women who can't find jobs or pay tuition, and who are seduced into submission by the promise of eventual rewards. The Vietnamese jungle has turned into Wall Street. For those of us who weren't particularly good activists in the 60s, age has widened our perspective, and the lack of opportunities for our children has given us a second chance to protest, to help make it clear how the leaders of my generation have abandoned the people they no longer need. Young America, here's why you should be angry: 1. The Great WEALTH Transfer -- 18- to 35-year-olds: Your median net worth has dropped 68% since 1984. It's now less than $4,000. -- The Richest 1%: They tripled their share of income between 1980 and 2006, then took 93% of all the new income in the first year after the 2008 recession. Their median net worth is now over $5,000,000. 2. The Lack of JOBS: No one's hiring, so you have to "create your own job." Help us speak truth to power. Donate what you can afford to support NationofChange. This from Michael Barone of the Washington Examiner: "The good news is that information technology provides the iPod/Facebook generation with the means to find work and create careers that build on their own personal talents and interests...creating your own career will produce a stronger sense of satisfaction and fulfillment." Sounds easy, doesn't it? Just grab your iPhone, open up Facebook, and create your own job. Become an entrepreneur, just like the richest Americans. Except that the richest Americans aren't entrepreneurs. Based on U.S. tax return data, only 3% of the wealthiest 130,000 Americans are entrepreneurs. Most are in management or finance. As your parents and mentors, we told you to stay in school and work hard and everything would be fine. But you don't have jobs. Over half of college graduates were jobless or underemployed in 2011. More than 350,000 Americans with advanced degrees were receiving food stamps or some other form of public assistance. If you do have a job, it's probably not paying much. Salaries for new graduates dropped 10% just in the last year. Worse yet, most of you are dealing with college loan debt, which averages $24,000, and with the reality of zero net worth for over a third of you. As wages are hitting an all-time low, corporate profits are hitting an all-time high. But the corporations that have built their profits on American innovation and labor are telling you they don't need you anymore. Apple -- much admired for its slick products -- shows little respect for anyone below upper management. With 47,000 employees, about 1/10 the number employed by IBM, Apple makes a profit of $420,000 per employee. Yet most Apple store workers make about $12 per hour. And your representatives in Washington are no help. In October, 2011 Senate Republicans killed a proposed $447 billion jobs bill that would have added about two million jobs to the economy. Nearly two-thirds of the American public had supported the bill. 3. The Portrayal of EDUCATION as a "lifetime investment" Yes, it's a lifetime investment, for the holder of your student loans. As corporate profits and CEO salaries and incomes of the 1% have surged over the past ten years, education financing declined by 24 percent, and tuition at state schools increased 72 percent. Since 1985, while consumer prices have approximately doubled, tuition has risen almost 600%. Total state education cuts for fiscal 2012 were $12.7 billion. A study by Citizens for Tax Justice noted that 265 of our nation's largest companies avoided about the same amount in state taxes each year from 2008 to 2010. So your massive tuition bills are paid for with mounting student debt, which has more than tripled in the past ten years. Here again my own generation has deceived you. Our once-idealistic anti-war activists now excel at flashy marketing and sloganeering, with admissions pitches of "affordability" and "lifetime investment," and carefully avoided references to costs and debts and contracts. To make up for lost revenue, cutbacks continue and educational opportunities disappear. State colleges are eliminating expensive-to-run engineering and computer science departments. Arizona doubled college tuition in four years. California K-12 schools have one counselor for every 800 students. Ohio's Governor Kasich suggested rationing college majors among state schools. Illinois cut 2012 educational funding by a greater percentage than any other state; not to be outdone, Pennsylvania's Governor Corbett tried to cut higher education funding by half, and New Hampshire DID cut university funding by half. Florida's college tuition is up 15% in a year, Nevada's is up 13%, Tennessee's about 10%, Washington's 24% over two years. Hell No, We Won't Go Into Servitude College graduates, you shouldn't be working for $12 an hour. The computer and networking technologies that gave life to companies like Apple and Google grew out of 50 years of public research. It was an accomplishment of society, not of a few well-positioned individuals. You, the descendants of industry pioneers, and the potential creators of even greater technologies, deserve at the very least a decent-paying job. Your anti-war protest, if a time-weathered opinion matters, would include a flood of job demands at the offices of U.S. and state senators and representatives. In person and online. You are part of the fastest and most sophisticated means of communication ever devised. You have the power to make demands. But first you have to get mad. article for reprint from NationofChange.org
Posted by JANMB

Re: SENIORS WITH CHILDREN--GRANDCHILDREN

posted at August 2, 2012 9:47 PM EDT
Posts: 585
First: May 28, 2012
Last: May 15, 2013
 Where do you get your less than 4% numbers from ?  You might want to check tuitions at non fancy colleges too. Yes you do come out with 50-80,000 loans even after scholarships with a Master's Degree ( my son & daughter )  So you know two graduates, who found work and  because you could still get a scientist job if you wanted to, you assume everyone can find work. Dont be so narrow minded and have SOME compassion for your fellow Americans, who have done the right things, but have not had your good fortune.
   We still do live in a civil society and care about each other, I hope. Re: SENIORS WITH CHILDREN--GRANDCHILDREN:
The unemployment rate among college graduates that get useful degrees is <4%. You don't have to rack up a $50,000 loan by going to some fancy private college and majoring in some useless subject, that there is no market for. A rational person would select something that is useful, go to a junior or community college, then transfer credits to a public 4 year college. My former supervisor's son and daughter recently graduated SUNY  with engineering degrees. They were offered dozens of jobs. When I check my linked in, I find many jobs that I can qualify for if I wanted. Most of those that don't have jobs after getting degrees are unemployed because they chose to major in some useless subject. I don't see where responsible people should be made to subsidise irresponsible people.   Response to SENIORS WITH CHILDREN--GRANDCHILDREN :
Posted by Labrat64

Re: SENIORS WITH CHILDREN--GRANDCHILDREN

posted at August 3, 2012 8:36 AM EDT
Posts: 471
First: December 21, 2011
Last: May 20, 2013
The unemployment rate among chemists is <4% according to the ACS. One of my sons worked 20 hours a week in the computer lab to help pay tuition and other costs. My other son worked as a TA and got an internship while pursuing his Masters. Both were hired before they graduated. Most of thosae with the $50,000+ loans spent 7 years in college trying to decide what they wanted to do, and spent their weekends partying. Now they want responsible people to pay their debts.  Response to Re: SENIORS WITH CHILDREN--GRANDCHILDREN:
 Where do you get your less than 4% numbers from ?  You might want to check tuitions at non fancy colleges too. Yes you do come out with 50-80,000 loans even after scholarships with a Master's Degree ( my son & daughter )  So you know two graduates, who found work and  because you could still get a scientist job if you wanted to, you assume everyone can find work. Dont be so narrow minded and have SOME compassion for your fellow Americans, who have done the right things, but have not had your good fortune.    We still do live in a civil society and care about each other, I hope.  Re: SENIORS WITH CHILDREN--GRANDCHILDREN :
Posted by mandm84

Re: SENIORS WITH CHILDREN--GRANDCHILDREN

posted at August 3, 2012 6:34 PM EDT
Posts: 585
First: May 28, 2012
Last: May 15, 2013
 There you go again, only seeing the nations problems wearing only your shoes.. Simplifying and analyzing the whole Nations problems from your little neck of the woods. Everybody should be like you and your sons, no exceptions. You use Chemists as an example for college majors who are finding work, so everybody should be a scientist or chemist from your narrow minded perspective and the nations employment problems are solved. Simple and Most of our graduates, who cant find jobs and have loans,  are drug addicts or drunks. Again, you have all the answers. So simple, why didn't I think of that. Response to Re: SENIORS WITH CHILDREN--GRANDCHILDREN:
The unemployment rate among chemists is <4% according to the ACS. One of my sons worked 20 hours a week in the computer lab to help pay tuition and other costs. My other son worked as a TA and got an internship while pursuing his Masters. Both were hired before they graduated. Most of thosae with the $50,000+ loans spent 7 years in college trying to decide what they wanted to do, and spent their weekends partying. Now they want responsible people to pay their debts.  Response to Re: SENIORS WITH CHILDREN--GRANDCHILDREN :
Posted by Labrat64

Re: SENIORS WITH CHILDREN--GRANDCHILDREN

posted at August 4, 2012 7:57 AM EDT
Posts: 12532
First: February 29, 2008
Last: May 17, 2013
In Response to Re: SENIORS WITH CHILDREN--GRANDCHILDREN:
The unemployment rate among chemists is <4% according to the ACS. One of my sons worked 20 hours a week in the computer lab to help pay tuition and other costs. My other son worked as a TA and got an internship while pursuing his Masters. Both were hired before they graduated. Most of thosae with the $50,000+ loans spent 7 years in college trying to decide what they wanted to do, and spent their weekends partying. Now they want responsible people to pay their debts.  Response to Re: SENIORS WITH CHILDREN--GRANDCHILDREN :
Posted by Labrat64


So  EVERYONE should become a chemist ?   Then what---a bunch of chemists unemployed too ?      Our social structure to be successful needs to have a variety of talents and desire for different career choices.   And everyone needs to be paid enough for the employment that they do.    40% of our citizens work in low-wage necessary service oriented  jobs and their low-wages puts money in the CHEMISTS (everyones)  pockets too cause goods and services are cheaper.       Responses that  all about me me me turn me off cause I'm better off than most but I understand NOT EVERYONE IS THE SAME.  .     We have different health issues...live in different areas....different financial means to start with and some have had catastrophic weather events to deal with.      I don't know where the idea comes from that we have equal opportunities .....it's the same place the idea comes from that every senior is healthy enough to work forever.   And the only reason these idiotic ideas are put into people's heads so they won't complain about the INEQUALITY and unfairness there truly is in the USA. 

Re: SENIORS WITH CHILDREN--GRANDCHILDREN

posted at August 4, 2012 11:38 AM EDT
Posts: 1923
First: November 27, 2011
Last: May 18, 2013
Maybe not always a chemist but at least an occupation or profession that has a good chance of survival. 
These stats from the Dept of Labor shows the reduction of unemployment % as the education increases.  The smart higher education person has to do apply due diligence in picking their model of study to make sure their talents will be needed for a long time.

If you only develop skills for low paying jobs, then that is where you will stay -
Education helps you to learn to think and reason - but it doesn't have to cost a mint.  Especially if you start with the basic levels like finishing high school.  Then you can go to a community oriented to get the basics out of the way or to learn a technical trade.

BLS:  Employment status of the civilian population 25 years and over by educational attainment

Even a person that is in a low paying service job can learn to better themselves if they can think on their feet.
I have a friend that started as a house-cleaner, she now has a house cleaning business - does everything and has built a quite good reputation on her methods of completion and expanded coverage of what they will do.  Her moto is if there is a need for cleaning, my company will do it.  She now employs about 20 people - from office staff to actual cleaners - the cleaners that are specialized in their (self-taught) knowledge of materials, products and equipment are paid a higher rate because of their knowledge.  She starts them out at the minimum wage but as they learn the various things and how to's, they advance because they then have some expertise.  By the way, she has done all of this since the economic downturn. 

We do have equal opportunities but in order to claim opportunities for yourself, you have to be able to perform at the highest level in knowledge and skills, no matter what the job might be.  We all deal with hardships out of our control - that is all part of life and we have safety nets to help people through such events.  But not advancing oneself to be the best they can be is NOT something that should be out of the control.

Competition in the labor market is extreme right now so employers can take their pick in most every job they have available. 

BLS:  DOL Special Report on employment /unemployment by race, ethniticity and gender.
Something is VERY WRONG with this picture.  I keep asking myself WHY????

Re: SENIORS WITH CHILDREN--GRANDCHILDREN

posted at August 4, 2012 2:04 PM EDT
Posts: 585
First: May 28, 2012
Last: May 15, 2013
  When you have CEO's making 343 times as much as the average blue collar worker in 2010 compared to 42 times as much in 1980, something is drastically wrong and its called GREED. President Bush promised the CEO's would create more jobs with his Tax Cuts for the wealthy that we have had for 11 yrs now, but they didn't and now the Republicans want to blame President Obama for the lack of those promised jobs.
  When the Romney's of this nation can take over struggling American companies and pay themselves millions in special dividends and then send our blue collar worker's jobs to China, to make themselves even more profits 
  Then the Romney's of this nation avoid paying the already reduced Bush Tax Rates, by hiding their special dividends in Switzerland and the Cayman Islands.Then the  Romney's of this nation avoidance of paying their already reduced Bush Tax Rates, that leaves deep holes in our Tax Revenue, which helps pay for Police, Fire, Highways, Bridges, Schools, Social Secirity, Medicare  etc.
  Then the Romney's of this nation, donate millions to our representatives, to continue to have favorable legislation and loopholes to keep getting richer, while attempting to cut Social Security and Medicare from those American workers, who shed blood, sweat and tears to make the Romney's of this nation millions of dollars.
    Romney now has the nerve to ask for  the keys to the White House after making his hundreds of millions. He promises to stop China and send our jobs back home. Just dont ask to see his Tax Returns, we might not like what we see.  What an American Hero. Romney in the White House is just what 99% of Americans dont need.
   I was raised in a Republican family, but back then I was always taught a value to  "never look down upon anyone, unless you are helping them up ".  It appears, that  value,  was taken away from the Republican Party somewhere along the way, maybe with the  selfish Right Wing Teaparty movement storming in.
   Yes Gail , There IS something VERY WRONG with this picture and its called GREED AT THE TOP, but of course those at the top dont see it that way, because it might cost them their fair share to help each other up. Response to Re: SENIORS WITH CHILDREN--GRANDCHILDREN:
Maybe not always a chemist but at least an occupation or profession that has a good chance of survival.  These stats from the Dept of Labor shows the reduction of unemployment % as the education increases.  The smart higher education person has to do apply due diligence in picking their model of study to make sure their talents will be needed for a long time. If you only develop skills for low paying jobs, then that is where you will stay - Education helps you to learn to think and reason - but it doesn't have to cost a mint.  Especially if you start with the basic levels like finishing high school.  Then you can go to a community oriented to get the basics out of the way or to learn a technical trade. BLS:  Employment status of the civilian population 25 years and over by educational attainment Even a person that is in a low paying service job can learn to better themselves if they can think on their feet. I have a friend that started as a house-cleaner, she now has a house cleaning business - does everything and has built a quite good reputation on her methods of completion and expanded coverage of what they will do.  Her moto is if there is a need for cleaning, my company will do it.  She now employs about 20 people - from office staff to actual cleaners - the cleaners that are specialized in their (self-taught) knowledge of materials, products and equipment are paid a higher rate because of their knowledge.  She starts them out at the minimum wage but as they learn the various things and how to's, they advance because they then have some expertise.  By the way, she has done all of this since the economic downturn.  We do have equal opportunities but in order to claim opportunities for yourself, you have to be able to perform at the highest level in knowledge and skills, no matter what the job might be.  We all deal with hardships out of our control - that is all part of life and we have safety nets to help people through such events.  But not advancing oneself to be the best they can be is NOT something that should be out of the control. Competition in the labor market is extreme right now so employers can take their pick in mos t every job they have available.  BLS:  DOL Special Report on employment /unemployment by race, ethniticity and gender. Something is VERY WRONG with this picture.  I keep asking myself WHY????
Posted by GailL1

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