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Election 2012 Debate Season
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Government & Elections
Election 2012 Debate Season
<font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" size="1">Whether you're a red state Republican or a blue state Democrat, everyone is welcome &mdash; just remember to be civil.</font>
Here's the schedule for the debates between the presidential and vice presidential candidates. October 3 President Barack Obama and Gov. Mitt Romney Topic : Domestic policy Moderator: Jim Lehrer, hos
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Cat:d51398b3-89f9-463d-bf1b-4b885f02c9eeForum:af978875-5bc6-4b07-a6fb-b18062132f95Discussion:c28f6d09-f20a-4e5c-a85a-a4d7018fba70

Forums » Politics & Society » Government & Elections » Election 2012 Debate Season

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Forums  »  Politics & Society  »  Government & Elections  »  Election 2012 Debate Season

Re: Election 2012 Debate Season

posted at November 3, 2012 4:31 PM EDT
Posts: 1924
First: November 27, 2011
Last: May 31, 2013
In Response to Re: Election 2012 Debate Season:
 Mother nature can only take so much and we must respect her. What is more important ?  When I was a child, 50 years ago, I remember my science teacher talking about pollution and  alternative energy and here we are still reliant on  oil, mostly foreign.   It's amazing how the billions of dollars big oil has spent in Wash. D.C. to influence our politicians has minimized Mother Nature's call. I'm proud of  President Obama and  those few in government, who respect Mother Nature and want to explore alternative energy. I realize the initial cost for change , but what will the eventual cost be to Mother Nature, if we dont ?Response to Re: Election 2012 Debate Season :
Posted by mandm84


The cost of alternatives has to be weighed into the equation.

Just keep in mind that there are people connected - livelihoods for them and surrounding areas.  What are you gonna do with them?

The President and his Administration haven't done real well in picking winner and losers in the alternative energy area.
We need a new way to help with start up cost other than grants in case of failure of the business enterprise - maybe a low interest loan with first dib on recovery of taxpayer money if the company does not make it.

We have to also be competitive - if the Chinese can make it cheaper, they will be big time competition for any company wanting to get into the field whether it is batteries or wind or solar.

Why should we subsidize energy efficiency in our tax structure?  Tax expenditures are massive for hybrid car buying, solar panel installation, etc. for both individuals and businesses.  Those are just the ones I know about off the top of my head.

There is a whole lot more to it than just saying it is to be and throwing money, that we don't really have, at it.

Re: Election 2012 Debate Season

posted at November 4, 2012 10:27 AM EST
Posts: 587
First: May 28, 2012
Last: June 10, 2013
   Why should we keep giving Tax Breaks to Big Oil companies that have all time record profits ??? When does the greed stop?  President Obama has had enough of Big Oil getting a free ride and so have many hard working Americans. It's all right if we lose hundreds of millions of dollars each year in  Tax Revenue from Big Oil companies, but we cant lose any Tax money investing in alternative energy, until that new energy source gets up to speed ?
   It's about time Big Oil stopped running our Nation and we stop putting our brave boys and girls in harm's way fighting over it. We have our soldiers providing round the clock security at  oil refineries all over the World and Big Oil gets the Tax breaks, even after they post Record Profits. Time to stop this madness. Response to Re: Election 2012 Debate Season:
In Response to Re: Election 2012 Debate Season : The cost of alternatives has to be weighed into the equation. Just keep in mind that there are people connected - livelihoods for them and surrounding areas.  What are you gonna do with them? The President and his Administration haven't done real well in picking winner and losers in the alternative energy area. We need a new way to help with start up cost other than grants in case of failure of the business enterprise - maybe a low interest loan with first dib on recovery of taxpayer money if the company does not make it. We have to also be competitive - if the Chinese can make it cheaper, they will be big time competition for any company wanting to get into the field whether it is batteries or wind or solar. Why should we subsidize energy efficiency in our tax structure?  Tax expenditures are massive for hybrid car buying, solar panel installation, etc. for both individuals and businesses.  Those are just the ones I know about off the top of my head. There is a whole lot more to it than just saying it is to be and throwing money, that we don't really have, at it.
Posted by GailL1

Re: Election 2012 Debate Season

posted at November 4, 2012 11:01 AM EST
Posts: 1924
First: November 27, 2011
Last: May 31, 2013
In Response to Re: Election 2012 Debate Season:
   Why should we keep giving Tax Breaks to Big Oil companies that have all time record profits ??? When does the greed stop?  President Obama has had enough of Big Oil getting a free ride and so have many hard working Americans. It's all right if we lose hundreds of millions of dollars each year in  Tax Revenue from Big Oil companies, but we cant lose any Tax money investing in alternative energy, until that new energy source gets up to speed ?    It's about time Big Oil stopped running our Nation and we stop putting our brave boys and girls in harm's way fighting over it. We have our soldiers providing round the clock security at  oil refineries all over the World and Big Oil gets the Tax breaks, even after they post Record Profits. Time to stop this madness. Response to Re: Election 2012 Debate Season :
Posted by mandm84


You do know that this "royalty exclusion" goes back to 2005 Energy Tax Legislation that the (then) Senator Obama voted for -as well as many other Democrats because they wanted to up production of domestic oil and this was part of how they did it.

Should they still get this? - Well that is a matter for the President to answer - does he feel that this legislation is keeping production up?

This is no different than one state giving a tax incentive to a business whom they want to locate or relocate to their state.
Tax incentives are the only way that government can really deal for what they want regardless of the industry or the focal point of any desired action or results from a business, industry or individual.

Re: Election 2012 Debate Season

posted at November 4, 2012 11:37 AM EST
Posts: 587
First: May 28, 2012
Last: June 10, 2013
  It's ok to give the wealthy Tax breaks that cost us lost Tax revenue, but God forbid, if our struggling seniors, disabled or Veterans need their Medicare and Social Security, the Republicans say " We Just Can't Afford That Anymore ". It's again a matter of priorities and I care more about our struggling seniors, disabled, poor children and Veterans, then I do about greed driven Big Oil companies,
  Big Oil can pay their fair share of Taxes and so can the wealthy Americans, who did during the Clinton years. Remember the Clinton years, when we had a surplus ??? When does the greed stop at the top ???  Response to Re: Election 2012 Debate Season:
In Response to Re: Election 2012 Debate Season : You do know that this "royalty exclusion" goes back to 2005 Energy Tax Legislation that the (then) Senator Obama voted for -as well as many other Democrats because they wanted to up production of domestic oil and this was part of how they did it. Should they still get this? - Well that is a matter for the President to answer - does he feel that this legislation is keeping production up? This is no different than one state giving a tax incentive to a business whom they want to locate or relocate to their state. Tax incentives are the only way that government can really deal for what they want regardless of the industry or the focal point of any desired action or results from a business, industry or individual.
Posted by GailL1

Re: Election 2012 Debate Season

posted at November 4, 2012 12:32 PM EST
Posts: 1924
First: November 27, 2011
Last: May 31, 2013
In Response to Re: Election 2012 Debate Season:
  It's ok to give the wealthy Tax breaks that cost us lost Tax revenue, but God forbid, if our struggling seniors, disabled or Veterans need their Medicare and Social Security, the Republicans say " We Just Can't Afford That Anymore ". It's again a matter of priorities and I care more about our struggling seniors, disabled, poor children and Veterans, then I do about greed driven Big Oil companies,   Big Oil can pay their fair share of Taxes and so can the wealthy Americans, who did during the Clinton years. Remember the Clinton years, when we had a surplus ??? When does the greed stop at the top ???  Response to Re: Election 2012 Debate Season :
Posted by mandm84


I think you are pinpointing the wrong villians here - Government can give and Government can take away but for every action there is a reaction - that is exactly the way government looks at their ability to receive a desired action.
  • Want to increase employment of Veterans - government gives a tax break to employers that do it.
  • Want to make energy efficiency a good thing for homeowners - government gives a tax break to them for buying certain energy efficient appliances
  • Want to increase employers participation in employee health care benefits - give them a tax break for doing it OR penalize them if they don't.
  • Want to increase production of domestic oil - give them a tax break for their efforts
  • Want to increase the sale of hybrid cars - give them a tax break for buying such
  • Want to make us more competitive in the world market - look at the capital gains rate as it compares to the rest of the world
  • Want to increase retirement savings - give a tax break
Right or wrong, it is the tax structure which government uses to get what they want from us.  When a matter is changed in this regards, all matters have to be taken into consideration as to what the effects will be.

You have to ask yourself if removing some of these royalty incentives from the Oil industry would produce higher prices for all of us?  If it is a business expense as in any other industry, cost are passed along in the price of the goods or services.

I rely on government to make the right decision on these things but many times there are extenuating circumstances.  Example:  I think we all agree that Defense spending can and should be lowered - keep us safe but don't overdo.  However, many places depend on these industries for jobs (just google Lima, Ohio and the tank industry) - the only time that we can get all of them together - Democrats and Republicans - is when they are fighting to keep jobs in their state.

Whomever is elected on Tuesday, will have some real big decision to make and all of them will affect each of us, no matter who we are because we are all connected - rich, poor, in-between, abled or disabled, old or young, business, individual, urban, suburban, rural.
No man is an island unto themself.

Re: Election 2012 Debate Season

posted at November 4, 2012 12:45 PM EST
Posts: 587
First: May 28, 2012
Last: June 10, 2013
  Its clear, who will suffer more if Romney is elected and its the 47% he called moochers and guess what,  in that group is our struggling seniors, disabled, poor children and Veterans.
  Gail, you can say all the politically correct stuff you want, but earlier you defended extending the  Bush Tax breaks for the wealthy, because your husband's business was so lucrative under his Republican leadership. So I think we all know whose best interest you are looking out for, in your subtle attacks against President Obama and the Democrats.
   You attempt to come across as impartial, but your views are right wing Republican at heart. Thats your right, but dont try to come across as a  neutral party In all your messages about Medicare, Social Security and the economy. You never have anything good to say about President Obama and you minimize his accomplishments.
  Let's keep it real and honest.Response to Re: Election 2012 Debate Season:
In Response to Re: Election 2012 Debate Season : I think you are pinpointing the wrong villians here - Government can give and Government can take away but for every action there is a reaction - that is exactly the way government looks at their ability to receive a desired action. Want to increase employment of Veterans - government gives a tax break to employers that do it. Want to make energy efficiency a good thing for homeowners - government gives a tax break to them for buying certain energy efficient appliances Want to increase employers participation in employee health care benefits - give them a tax break for doing it OR penalize them if they don't. Want to increase production of domestic oil - give them a tax break for their efforts Want to increase the sale of hybrid cars - give them a tax break for buying such Want to make us more competitive in the world market - look at the capital gains rate as it compares to the rest of the world Want to increase retirement savings - give a tax break Right or wrong, it is the tax structure which government uses to get what they want from us.  When a matter is changed in this regards, all matters have to be taken into consideration as to what the effects will be. You have to ask yourself if removing some of these royalty incentives from the Oil industry would produce higher prices for all of us?  If it is a business expense as in any other industry, cost are passed along in the price of the goods or services. I rely on government to make the right decision on these things but many times there are extenuating circumstances.  Example:  I think we all agree that Defense spending can and should be lowered - keep us safe but don't overdo.  However, many places depend on these industries for jobs (just google Lima, Ohio and the tank industry) - the only time that we can get all of them together - Democrats and Republicans - is when they are fighting to keep jobs in their state. Whomever is elected on Tuesday, will have some real big decision to make and all of them will affect each of us, no matter who we are because we are all connected - rich, poor, in-between, abled or disabled, old or young, business, individual, urban, suburban, rural. No man is an island unto themself.
Posted by GailL1

Re: Election 2012 Debate Season

posted at November 4, 2012 1:54 PM EST
Posts: 1924
First: November 27, 2011
Last: May 31, 2013
In Response to Re: Election 2012 Debate Season:
  Its clear, who will suffer more if Romney is elected and its the 47% he called moochers and guess what,  in that group is our struugling seniors, disabled, poor children and Veterans.   Gail, you can say all the politically correct stuff you want, but earlier you defended extending the  Bush Tax breaks for the wealthy, because your husband's business was so lucrative under his Republican leadership. So I think we all know whose best interest you are looking out for. Let's keep it real and honest.Response to Re: Election 2012 Debate Season :
Posted by mandm84


I am but one person - but anything that is done will affect me one way or the other., as it will you too.

The President extended the tax cuts once during his 1st term, IF re-elected, he may do it again based on where he feels he can do the most good.   Compromise is not a dirty word in politics.

Whomever is elected - that includes the House & Senate too - there is going to be a whole lot of decision that have to be made since Sequestration is upon us.  The Medicare situation needs a long term remedy and although not in as bad of shape, Social Security too.  And if it stays, Obamcare has a whole lot of difficult decision to make, like the Expansion of Medicaid in states that may not cooperate within the desired type system.

mandm84, nobody in this country should be played one against the other - we are all in this together and it is going to take us all to make this country solid for all of us.  The poor aren't gonna get any better unless there is growth, we all need that as a country and regardless of taxes, growth does trickle down - I've never seen growth from the bottom trickle up.

Re: Election 2012 Debate Season

posted at November 4, 2012 11:47 PM EST
Posts: 6
First: November 3, 2012
Last: November 4, 2012
ROMNEY/GOP JOBS/THE ECONOMY
Romney has Bush's top 2 economic advisors/architects of the crash of 2008 working for him. If u liked the 2008 economic crash, you will love Rom's economy; if u r a multi millionaire.
JOBS: here is a clue: the GOP ecomomic policies of Bush = 3 million total jobs in 8 years vs Obama 5 million jobs in 3 years vs Clinton = 23 million jobs in 8 years. BUSH HAD THE WORST JOBS RECORD of any prez since it was tracked back to HARRY TRUMAN. WHY WOULD ROM HIRE BUSH'S 2 TOP ECONOMIC ADVISORS???
Romney claimed that his economic plan would produce 12 million jobs in 4 years though the policy paper issued by his campaign contains few details.
The non-partisan Congressional Budget Office estimates 9.06 million jobs will be created between 2013 and 2017. But non-partisan Moody’s Analytics predicts 12 million jobs will be created by 2016, NO MATTER WHO IS PREZ. And Macroeconomic Advisors in April also predicted a gain of 12.3 million jobs.
Romney was given Four Pinocchios by FactChecker for an television ad that incorrectly jumbled together a bunch of studies to achieve that 12 million figure.

If the Rom/Ryan tax plan is passed Rom and many multi-millionaires will pay less than 1% fed tax. Smile?

The Republican Iraq WMD lie = 4500 DEAD AND 200,000 injured America armed forces, cost $2 TRILLION. Rom favored the invasion vs Obama opposed it: not enough evidence to send our troops into a quagmire. Which commander in chief made the better decision? Romney has 17 former Bush foreign policy advisors working for him. If u want to reward these 17 advisors for the unneeded 4500 deaths and 200,000 injured American armed forces, and u have no respect for our armed forces, vote for the GOP.
Watch video interview of the top FBI Interrogator of Al Quida at PBS online, Frontline, The Interrogator, to learn of the GOP IRAQ lies.

It is your life on Nov 6.

Re: Election 2012 Debate Season

posted at November 5, 2012 12:17 PM EST
Posts: 587
First: May 28, 2012
Last: June 10, 2013
 For over 11 years with the Bush Tax Cuts for the wealthy, it has NOT trickled down obviously. During the Clinton years, with  the Middle Class growth, it most certainly did trickle up. History has shown that our economy has done better for all Americans under a Democratic President and better for the wealthy under Republican leadership. Why is that ? Response to Re: Election 2012 Debate Season:
In Response to Re: Election 2012 Debate Season : I am but one person - but anything that is done will affect me one way or the other., as it will you too. The President extended the tax cuts once during his 1st term, IF re-elected, he may do it again based on where he feels he can do the most good.   Compromise is not a dirty word in politics. Whomever is elected - that includes the House & Senate too - there is going to be a whole lot of decision that have to be made since Sequestration is upon us.  The Medicare situation needs a long term remedy and although not in as bad of shape, Social Security too.  And if it stays, Obamcare has a whole lot of difficult decision to make, like the Expansion of Medicaid in states that may not cooperate within the desired type system. mandm84, nobody in this country should be played one against the other - we are all in this together and it is going to take us all to make this country solid for all of us.  The poor aren't gonna get any better unless there is growth, we all need that as a country and regardless of taxes, growth does trickle down - I've never seen growth from the bottom trickle up.
Posted by GailL1

Re: Election 2012 Debate Season

posted at November 7, 2012 7:50 AM EST
Posts: 12549
First: February 29, 2008
Last: June 16, 2013
In Response to Re: Election 2012 Debate Season:
 For over 11 years with the Bush Tax Cuts for the wealthy, it has NOT trickled down obviously. During the Clinton years, with  the Middle Class growth, it most certainly did trickle up. History has shown that our economy has done better for all Americans under a Democratic President and better for the wealthy under Republican leadership. Why is that ? Response to Re: Election 2012 Debate Season :
Posted by mandm84


FREE AT LAST---WE CAN BREATHE  EASILY AGAIN.    Thank you America for your votes and all that you did to get President Obama re-elected.   Thank you  thank you.  

Romney got his funding for his first run at the presidency from the DEATH SQUADS ( of Salvadore) via  Boston Globe in 1994 and the Salt Lake Tribune in 1999.     This election cycle,
Salon first raised the issue in January, and the Los Angeles Times filled out more of the record on where he got his funding for Bain.      When Romney launched another venture that needed funding -- his first presidential campaign -- he returned to Miami.  

This time,  the Bilderbergs mainly... backed him as he was one of them.     

We can breathe more easily---NO VOUCHERs for our children under 55-----no privatizing of Social Security.    But we still have to be somewhat vigilant regardless    because the devilish ghouls are still out there trying to capture our benefits for the good of  Wall Street.   We have the Bowles-Simpson to knock down.   

What aggravates me most....is the retorek about the "redistribution of income" .    The ONLY reason we ALL  have more money in our pockets is that some people haven't been paid enough for decades which allows services  and products to be cheaper.    ..and when these less affluent  folks (40% of country)  ...need social benefits .....the more advantaged people resent that too and mock them hoping that will shame them into letting their children starve and seniors suffer.    .    


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