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SSD And Care Home Payment
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Medicare & Insurance
SSD And Care Home Payment
Share Medicare dos and don’ts, including eligibility and supplemental insurance.
Double post.....apologies
0
Cat:91a4afbf-9555-4e02-b9d3-9eef604476f6Forum:c79f53c3-fa71-4e76-b517-aef042efd7ff
Cat:91a4afbf-9555-4e02-b9d3-9eef604476f6Forum:c79f53c3-fa71-4e76-b517-aef042efd7ffDiscussion:73d9c07c-5b17-4915-83c6-cf7a34123fd5

Forums » Health » Medicare & Insurance » SSD And Care Home Payment

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Forums  »  Health  »  Medicare & Insurance  »  SSD And Care Home Payment

SSD And Care Home Payment

posted at July 28, 2012 4:20 PM EDT
Posts: 2
First: July 28, 2012
Last: August 2, 2012
Double post.....apologies

Re: SSD And Care Home Payment

posted at July 28, 2012 5:35 PM EDT
Posts: 1921
First: November 27, 2011
Last: April 13, 2013
In Response to SSD And Care Home Payment:

Lots of details missing


........ A year or so ago, a dear friend of mine was ill (and still is). During the course of this long illness and hospitalisation, a few things happened to her. Some of them very nasty indeed. She was deemed, by a lawyer, to have become incomptent for just as long as it took to get all her monies, and distribute them to whoever he thought was a priority to recieve them. He obviously thought her health insurance wasnt a top priority, so that didnt get paid and therefore her insurance was cancelled, and they no longer paid her hospital bills. She went on Medicaid from then on.


The lawyer had to be appointed by someone to make these decisions.  Either she had given the lawyer a Power of Attorney at some prior point or the lawyer could have been appointed by a Court to act on her behalf if she was declared to not be able to do so - called a Guardianship or ConservatorThe person appointed or acting in this behalf has a fidicuary responsibility to act in her best interest and can be held accountable for any wrong doing, if that be the case.

The hospital she was in then turned very sour on her and her few remaining extended family members (a sister-in-law and a neice) The eventual outcome of this is that she was placed in a State run nursing home by her family.  


Most Skilled Nursing Facilities are no long ran by "the State" but you may mean one that accepts Medicaid since it seems that she might have been placed here for rehab or recouperation.  Since she no longer had health insurance, was too young to be on Medicare, I will assume that Medicaid was the payer of last resort.  Placement of Medicaid receipients is limited to those facilities that accept it.

Once in this nursing home, lo and behold, she was then found to be compus mentis once more, . . . . .


Well, that was good!

While all this was happening, her rented apartment evicted her and all her posessions, including her car were disposed of, leaving her with literally the clothes she had on her at the time of her first admittance to hospital.


Again, this is something that she will have to take up with the lawyer who was looking after her affairs by whatever authority.  However, you have to understand that if she did not have enough money (emergency fund) or have some type of short or long term disability to pick up and cover her expenses - health insurance premium, apartment rental, car payments, etc. then this tend to happen. 

While she was in the original hospital, she put a claim in for SSD (Not bad for someone deemed incompetent, huh!!!!) This took time, but was eventualy granted, and any entitlment she had from the time she made the claim to present day was recently awarded to her. Quite a considerable sum. As she also had her bank acount closed (LONG story in itself!) she has to wait until a debit card gets to her.


Well, that 's also good - perhaps the lawyer put the claim in for her while he was acting on her behalf.  So she will get the initial back SSDI allotment and then a monthly amount as long as she is deemed disabled.  If she reamins on SSDI for (2) years, she will be able to apply for Medicare.

This not so wonderful care facility are telling her that, as Medicaid know she has all this cash, they stopped paying them. So they (the care home) are now looking to her to give up this cash to them !!! The care home loosely arranged a meeting with her to discuss the situation. This was kept in limbo. Now, however she has been furnished with a bill fom Medicaid and the care home, plus a letter from Medicaid stating she owes ALL of this SSD back payment to the care home she is in. Whats worse, the figure stated is $900 more than this SSD payment due to her cashing in a life insurance policy so she could eke out some sort of existance where she is now.


That sounds about right.  Each state has their own Medicaid eligibility income/asset rules and yes, Medicaid can be the payer for care in an interium period but if the receipient of the care has income that begins or recovered assets, they do have the right to recover all or part as the situation may be.
U.S. Dept. of Health and Human Resources:  Medicaid Estate Recovery


This leads me to my 1st question on her bahalf. She is being told she is to give up her monthly check, which she accepts has to be done. But there is some de-iscreoancy as to the ammount she is allowed to keep each month from the check. The care home are saying $35 a month, but she has heard others who have been in similar places to where she is now, getting upwards of $60+ So, simply put, is there a ruling anywhere where it states a set amount she will be entitled to keep back from her monthly check?


I believe this is going to be determined by the State Medicaid program where she is going to reside in a Community
Residential Care Home or facility. 

Now, back to the original question: This back payment is much needed by her to rebuild her life, as she is, through guts and determination (and some physical therapy as well) getting to the stage where she can apply to be "returned to the community" as these people so glibbly put it. I know this next part is very unethical, and even immoral to suggest to her but.....what would be the likely outcome, if she were to say to this care home that she was keeping all this SSD payment to try and rebuild her life after she is released from there, and that they wont be getting a cent of it while she gets an apartment, furnishes it etc, etc? She wouldnt be defaulting on the debt as such, and would willingly make a payment plan with care home, but she would want to do it on HER terms tather than theirs, if you understand what i mean From what i am learning SSD and suchlike cant be garnished, so what would the likely actions be by the care home should she suggest to them that possesion is nine tenths of the law, and that they will have to wait for their payment?
Posted by egremont


It sounds to me that she has a couple or more problems.
1.  It sounds like Medicaid want to be reimbursed for some of the care which they have paid for while (maybe in the hospital) and definitely while in the nursing home.    So some of this SSDI back payment may get taken for that -
all of this is by Social Security number at the state and federal level so sooner or later, they will deduct the amount - probably even before it gets to her.

2.  No, SSDI if in an account all it's on and not mixed with other money cannot be garnished by private debt collections - totally different for a state or the federal government seeking reimbursement for funds that are owed to them.  They actually don't have to garnish - they just take it before it gets to you.  So, in that case, the terms are up to them not her.  I do believe they are limited in how much they can take on a monthly basis.  She should check with SSA on this and perhaps her state Medicaid program.

3.  If she wants to do it on her own and has assummed the legal ability to do it on her own (since it appears that might have been removed from her by the lawyer), she can.  The care that she would be getting within the community residential home could be given to her in her own home as long as the medical community & medicaid agree that (a)  this sort of help would be adequate for her needs (b)  they agree that she is able to do it by herself.  She could also apply for other forms of help - food stamps to help her. (c)  would the care be covered under the State Medicaid program if done outside a Community Home care facility.

4.  However, a word of caution, that SSDI amount is gonna have to go a long ways in support even with other forms of possible help.  She is probably still without health insurance and will have to wait that 24 months for Medicare - and in the interium she may still have to rely on Medicaid for certain medical services or medicine.  Rent, utilities, food, transportation cost, incidentals, clothes, etc.  are not cheap.

That's all I got - that's my 2 cents.

Re: SSD And Care Home Payment

posted at July 28, 2012 6:13 PM EDT
Posts: 4
First: July 28, 2012
Last: August 1, 2012
In Response to Re: SSD And Care Home Payment:
In Response to SSD And Care Home Payment : Lots of details missing The lawyer had to be appointed by someone to make these decisions.  Either she had given the lawyer a Power of Attorney at some prior point or the lawyer could have been appointed by a Court to act on her behalf if she was declared to not be able to do so - called a Guardianship or Conservator .  The person appointed or acting in this behalf has a fidicuary responsibility to act in her best interest and can be held accountable for any wrong doing, if that be the case. Most Skilled Nursing Facilities are no long ran by "the State" but you may mean one that accepts Medicaid since it seems that she might have been placed here for rehab or recouperation.  Since she no longer had health insurance, was too young to be on Medicare, I will assume that Medicaid was the payer of last resort.  Placement of Medicaid receipients is limited to those facilities that accept it. Well, that was good! Again, this is something that she will have to take up with the lawyer who was looking after her affairs by whatever authority.  However, you have to understand that if she did not have enough money (emergency fund) or have some type of short or long term disability to pick up and cover her expenses - health insurance premium, apartment rental, car payments, etc. then this tend to happen.  Well, that 's also good - perhaps the lawyer put the claim in for her while he was acting on her behalf.  So she will get the initial back SSDI allotment and then a monthly amount as long as she is deemed disabled.  If she reamins on SSDI for (2) years, she will be able to apply for Medicare. That sounds about right.  Each state has their own Medicaid eligibility income/asset rules and yes, Medicaid can be the payer for care in an interium period but if the receipient of the care has income that begins or recovered assets, they do have the right to recover all or part as the situation may be. U.S. Dept. of Health and Human Resources:  Medicaid Estate Recovery I believe this is going to be determined by the State Medicaid program where she is going to reside in a Community Residential Care Home or facility.  It sounds to me that she has a couple or more problems. 1.  It sounds like Medicaid want to be reimbursed for some of the care which they have paid for while (maybe in the hospital) and definitely while in the nursing home.    So some of this SSDI back payment may get taken for that - all of this is by Social Security number at the state and federal level so sooner or later, they will deduct the amount - probably even before it gets to her. 2.  No, SSDI if in an account all it's on and not mixed with other money cannot be garnished by private debt collections - totally different for a state or the federal government seeking reimbursement for funds that are owed to them.  They actually don't have to garnish - they just take it before it gets to you.  So, in that case, the terms are up to them not her.  I do believe they are limited in how much they can take on a monthly basis.  She should check with SSA on this and perhaps her state Medicaid program. 3.  If she wants to do it on her own and has assummed the legal ability to do it on her own (since it appears that might have been removed from her by the lawyer), she can.  The care that she would be getting within the community residential home could be given to her in her own home as long as the medical community & medicaid agree that (a)  this sort of help would be adequate for her needs (b)  they agree that she is able to do it by herself.  She could also apply for other forms of help - food stamps to help her. (c)  would the care be covered under the State Medicaid program if done outside a Community Home care facility. 4.  However, a word of caution, that SSDI amount is gonna have to go a long ways in support even with other forms of possible help.  She is probably still without health insurance and will have to wait that 24 months for Medicare - and in the interium she may still have to rely on Medicaid for certain medical services or medicine.  Rent, utilities, food, transportation cost, incidentals, clothes, etc.  are not cheap. That's all I got - that's my 2 cents.
Posted by GailL1


since the money is her name and possission is there any way (other than giving it to them) can they get the money?its all she has in world. and will need it for rent, security deposit, furniture and food. the 24 month wait...when does the clock start ticking on that...she will be 62 next month (accoeding to a call ro social security will be entitled to medicare then) she filed her original claim in January 2011 and was approved Aug. 2011.
alot of people told her she would be entitled to keep a percentage of the backpay.....is that true?
thankl you

Re: SSD And Care Home Payment

posted at July 28, 2012 7:17 PM EDT
Posts: 1921
First: November 27, 2011
Last: April 13, 2013
In Response to Re: SSD And Care Home Payment:
In Response to Re: SSD And Care Home Payment : since the money is her name and possission is there any way (other than giving it to them) can they get the money?its all she has in world. and will need it for rent, security deposit, furniture and food. the 24 month wait...when does the clock start ticking on that...she will be 62 next month (accoeding to a call ro social security will be entitled to medicare then) she filed her original claim in January 2011 and was approved Aug. 2011. alot of people told her she would be entitled to keep a percentage of the backpay.....is that true? thankl you
Posted by csibbio


24 months (2-years) from the date she was approved for her Social Security Disability Insurance to be approved for Medicare unless the disabled person turns 65 before that time period is up or has end stage renal disease.
Medicare Eligibility

As for the other problem, she should call her state Medicaid office and ask because I beleive that it is the state that is trying to collect their money for what they paid (or some of it) for her Medicaid while she was ill.



Re: SSD And Care Home Payment

posted at August 2, 2012 6:39 AM EDT
Posts: 2
First: July 28, 2012
Last: August 2, 2012
In Response to Re: SSD And Care Home Payment:
As for the other problem, she should call her state Medicaid office and ask because I beleive that it is the state that is trying to collect their money for what they paid (or some of it) for her Medicaid while she was ill.
Posted by GailL1

This is the part i fail to understand
Why is the care place she is in so interested and involved with this, if its nothing to do with them

Egremont

Re: SSD And Care Home Payment

posted at August 2, 2012 9:23 AM EDT
Posts: 1921
First: November 27, 2011
Last: April 13, 2013
In Response to Re: SSD And Care Home Payment:
In Response to Re: SSD And Care Home Payment : This is the part i fail to understand Why is the care place she is in so interested and involved with this, if its nothing to do with them Egremont
Posted by egremont


You said this in your initial description of the events:

"This not so wonderful care facility are telling her that, as Medicaid know she has all this cash, they stopped paying them. So they (the care home) are now looking to her to give up this cash to them !!! The care home loosely arranged a meeting with her to discuss the situation. This was kept in limbo. Now, however she has been furnished with a bill fom Medicaid and the care home, plus a letter from Medicaid stating she owes ALL of this SSD back payment to the care home she is in. Whats worse, the figure stated is $900 more than this SSD payment due to her cashing in a life insurance policy so she could eke out some sort of existance where she is now."

I am purely guessing because all the facts have to come into play but it sounds like to me, that she became UNqualified for Medicaid sometimes during this scenario - so a couple of things might be happening -

1.  Medicaid wants their money back that they paid since it seems she might not have been qualified for this help - that is usually based on assets or income that have been uncovered.

2.  The facility may still has an UNpaid amount because Mediciad stopped paying for her extended care and they want the bill to be paid.

It sounds to me like you don't have the complete story and thus it is hard to figure out exactly why things are going down this way.

Find out what is owed, to whom and why.  Best way to do that is to contact whomever is trying to recover funds - facilty, state Medicaid program or CMS at the Federal level.

Forums » Health » Medicare & Insurance » SSD And Care Home Payment