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An Education Worth the Price?

Interview with Claudia Dreifus, coauthor of "Higher Education? How Colleges Are Wasting Our Money ..."

Q. Does prestige pay off in graduate school?

A. Prestige doesn't pay off anywhere. I think we have to get rid of the concept because it's like advertising — it doesn't really talk about the product. Different programs are better than others. You have to look for good teaching.

What a designer degree at Harvard/Princeton/Yale is good for, frankly, is getting into Harvard/Princeton/Yale law school or medical school. An Ivy League school is a very pleasant way to spend four years if you can afford it, but is it worth saddling yourself and your children with debt?

Q. Why do you recommend avoiding student loans?

A. We talked to students at a school called Cooper Union, which is all scholarship. When they talked about their futures, these young people were so different from students we met everywhere else. They were free.

Q. What does debt do?

A. For a young person to graduate with $20,000 or $100,000 in loans is to cripple him or her at the starting gate of life. AARP readers know this because we went to school in a period when it wasn't that expensive or took such a large chunk of one's savings that it required indebtedness.

Q. What about the argument that it is better to get professional training rather than a liberal arts degree?

A. When I was young, and certainly when opportunities for women were much more limited than they are today, you got a liberal arts degree but you always took a few education courses so that you could get a license when you were done. Teaching and nursing were the good practical things that an educated female did. It's not a bad strategy: Take a few courses that could get you ready for a profession, but take those liberal arts courses, too. A lot of "professional training" is unnecessary. I've seen courses in golf management. Nursing theory. Really?

Q. How can parents and grandparents help their kids prepare for college?

A. When your child says, "I must go to Williams or I must go to Kenyon because I can't get ahead without it," you say, "Wrong."

Stick to your values. The things you learned in high school, during World War II, in the '60s, they are not wrong: Value is worthwhile. Sometimes you'll be told you're old-fashioned, that you don't understand how the world works now. But no college degree is worth a quarter of a million dollars.

Q. You suggest that universities should draw high schoolers' names from a bowl for admission. Why?

A. College admission is an entirely random, not particularly fair process, especially at the most elite schools. There is the illusion of fairness with the SATs. But at elite schools, 25 percent of the places are dictated by athletic requirements, so what's fair about that? On the one hand, it is supposed to be a meritocracy, but if you are good at judo or rowing you are going to jump ahead of somebody who is really good at philosophy and might change the way the world thinks.

Q. What advice do you have for older students who are going back to college today?

A. If you are going for your four-year degree and you didn't do it when you were younger, the primary qualities you should be looking for are low cost and good teaching. And then I think you need to think outside the box. You have to ask friends where they have had good experiences because it is kind of quirky — there is good teaching and bad teaching in every institution.

Q. Are your older students significantly different to teach?

A. A lot of my students have been older people. They are fabulous. They have life experience, they care, they really want to learn. Many actually get degrees to become teachers.

Q. You write that adjunct professors are exploited by universities. How so?

A. The American Federation of Teachers says the average wage per course for an adjunct is about $3,000. And when you think of all the hours involved preparing lectures, teaching and grading papers, that probably isn't even minimum wage. This is a big issue for older citizens who are teaching because they may well be teaching as adjuncts. They are teaching the same courses at one-sixth the salary of tenure-track professors.

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